In this episode, meet Sabrina Cherubini, Senior Vice President of Brand & Digital at Hanky Panky. With a storied history of work on both the agency and brand sides of marketing with Leo Burnett, Havas, Sears and Ann Inc and now, with a unique role with both the brand and performance elements of this heritage retailer, Sabrina takes us through how she is injecting a startup mentality into Hanky Panky to reignite growth and having fun doing it.
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
In this episode, meet Sabrina Cherubini, Senior Vice President of Brand & Digital at Hanky Panky. With a storied history of work on both the agency and brand sides of marketing with Leo Burnett, Havas, Sears and Ann Inc and now, with a unique role with both the brand and performance elements of this heritage retailer, Sabrina takes us through how she is injecting a startup mentality into Hanky Panky to reignite growth and having fun doing it.
About Sabrina
Building Powerful Brands and Turning Data and Consumers’ Insights into Innovative Integrated Marketing Strategies
Experienced inspirational and collaborative leader motivating and mentoring teams, demonstrating the power of strong customer-centric strategic thinking in fast-paced environment to marketing effectiveness. Adept at growing global brands’ revenue through leading advertising agencies, fast-growing startups and US Fortune 500 corporations.
• Customer-centric strategy
• Segmentation / Personalization / CRM
• Branding Strategy / Advertising
• Integrated / Digital Marketing
• Content Strategy / Storytelling
• Marketing analytics / Customer research
• Loyalty / Credit Card strategies
• Leadership / Management
ABOUT US:
Scott Silverman
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
Michael LeBlanc 00:09
In this episode meet Sabrina Cherubini, Senior Vice President of Brand & Digital at Hanky Panky. With a storied history of work on both the agency and brand sides of marketing Leo Burnett, Havas, Sears and Ann Inc and now with a unique role with both the brand and performance elements of this heritage retailer, Sabrina takes us through how she is injecting a startup mentality into Hanky Panky to reignite growth and having fun doing it.
Veronika Sonsev 00:39
Welcome to Conversations with CommerceNext, Sabrina. You have been a friend of CommerceNext for a long time. You've spoken at a number of our events and are an active member of our community. I always enjoy hearing your point of view on marketing and digital. And I'm excited to have you join us today. Welcome.
Sabrina Cherubini 00:56
Thank you, Veronika, for having me. I'm excited and specifically, you know, after like holiday planning, being able to pause for a minute and have a great discussion.
Veronika Sonsev 01:07
Yes, that's right. We're recording on Cyber Monday. And I'm joined here by the producer and co-host of Conversations with CommerceNext, Michael LeBlanc.
Michael LeBlanc 01:16
Hi, Sabrina, how are you? Where are we finding you in the world today?
Sabrina Cherubini 01:20
I'm in New York. I'm in freezing New York, actually.
Michael LeBlanc 01:24
Well, fantastic. I was, I was in New York myself last week. So, I love the city. I'll be back in January and I'm looking forward to the CommerceNext party on, on the Monday during the NRF Big Show. So, I'm looking forward to that. All right let's, let's jump right in. I mean, I you know, you've had such an interesting career journey. You started out on the agency side, Leo Burnett, Havas in Paris, you've got international experience you moved in the startup world, EKyog and Women's StartUp Lab. Now your large retail brands like Sears and Ann Inc and, and now you join Hanky Panky. So, this is like about a year ago, which is a small, super interesting origin story, it's not a new brand by any means. Talk about your background, how did you, how did you frame this journey, you know, on the agency side then the client side? And then tell us a little bit about what you do for a living today.
Sabrina Cherubini 02:14
Michael, Michael, when you list all these brands and experiences, I feel very old. (Inaudible), 23 years of experience. I started right away in a global advertising agency, as you said I worked for, I was lucky enough to work for Leo Burnett with you know, the best creative directors but also one of you know, the most amazing global brands, which was you know, an amazing experience to start with, you know, when you graduate. So, I spent a few years at Leo Burnett. I really grew from being a brand you know, manager to leading global accounts and then I moved to Havas. Havas is, is very strong and is very strong in also digital, which was, you know, one of my (inaudible) aspects that really brought me to Havas and being able to not only create amazing commercials and thinking about, you know, Cannes Festival and getting awards, but (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 02:53
Right, right.
Sabrina Cherubini 02:55
Getting a holistic view and, and being you know, partnering with brands and global brands on their, what we call that these times. So, it seems like a long time ago, there's 360 degrees strategy, (inaudible) digital,
Michael LeBlanc 03:29
What was your, (crossover talk). What was your favorite commercial? I mean, you've got a long, great history in the agency side. Is there anything you worked on that you, you particularly you put on your mantle and say this, this was kind of a great achievement for you and the team,
Sabrina Cherubini 03:41
It's funny I was not thinking about it like a big campaign. I was lucky to work on award campaigns. But the one I'm very proud of is actually a brand called Grano that you can find in grocery stores. Not only in the US, everywhere. It's fresh pasta. And they wanted to penetrate the Eur-, European market. They come from Italy; they were a very small brand. And we came out with a very bold campaign. It was out-of-home advertising, we just did it in one region, in France, in partnership with a grocery store. And we had these out-of-home campaigns saying that buy (inaudible) buy our competitor, we will reimburse the (inaudible). We got amazing results, were able to go see, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 04:10
Wow.
Sabrina Cherubini 04:11
They were able to go see all the Walmart’s and everyone in the world to say we have this campaign. It drives a lot of traffic. If you buy into the product for develop the company and become like a global company within a year, and now they're globally distributed.
Michael LeBlanc 04:22
Oh, fantastic.
Sabrina Cherubini 04:23
I think it was again the mix and you'll see that's my background (inaudible) as being you know, bold and innovative but also thinking about performance, which is you know what everyone is looking for as well. So, yes, so 10 years in advertising agencies I And then I felt like many people, like, you come with these amazing creative ideas, you're not always able to bring them to life. And I'm like, yeah, it's kind of time to go on the other side.
Michael LeBlanc 04:45
Right.
Sabrina Cherubini 04:46
That's when I was also in ad agencies, you work a lot on predictive insights and sustainability was top of mind. I met the founder of a brand called ECAU. This founder was an amazing designer, she wanted to grow this sustainable fashion brand in Europe. And I came in at number two. So, I joined like the more entrepreneurial,
Michael LeBlanc 04:59
Sure.
Sabrina Cherubini 05:00
Brands, with way less money, way less budget. And that's where I really understood the power of being purpose driven. And how you can also get a lot of earned media, a lot of engagement, a lot of advocacy from your customers to grow a brand from scratch, I would say. So, it was amazing. We started with a few stores in France, and then grew this brand in Asia, and Canada. It's an amazing story online as well. But something that and like, it's more the personal aspect of things. I traveled a lot, I'm a mix, you know, I come from a mixed culture, and my husband as well. And we really wanted to live the American dream. So, we went to San Francisco, where I loved, you know, the startup mindset.
Michael LeBlanc 05:42
Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 05:43
I worked for, I was an advisor to many companies, I, I helped, you know, some female entrepreneurs also, when I moved there, but very quickly, I joined big retailers with big plans, were Sears, initially Sears Apparel, the apparel side in San Francisco, and then Ann Inc in New York, where I worked. I did marketing, and customer strategy (inaudible). And I would say it was like 10 years of being focused on creativity and finding the right customer insights, because exactly that is what we call the human truth, the things that can really trigger an emotional connection with customers that you can put in advertising. And then the other side of things is when moving to San Francisco, I understood that my data analytics skills were not on point. And I really thought, you know, if I, if I'm able to understand the customer from an emotional point of view, but also a behavioral point of view. That's what can really lead to amazing marketing strategies.
Sabrina Cherubini 07:29
So, I really worked with amazing people from AI experts to someone from Google, who mentored me a lot, and I learned how to extract data and insight. Insights from the data. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now and now you've made your journey to the other side of the great American dream in the Big Apple, so talk about what you do at Hanky Panky and how you found your way there? Yeah. So, I joined Hanky Panky for one key reason. First, we'll talk about it. But it's an amazing heritage brand, which I'm very respectful of. But two, I oversee DTC so everything eComm, as well as stores because we just opened our own stores, (crossover talk).
Michael LeBlanc 08:26
That's in SoHo, right? I think I walked right by it. and now that's a LEAP on the LEAP Foundation, right? Is that have I got that right? Partnership,
Sabrina Cherubini 08:32
(Crossover talk) partnership, we opened one on Bleecker Street that we're just you know, excited to see results every day.
Michael LeBlanc 08:36
Yeah,
Sabrina Cherubini 08:37
And we just opened another one last week in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. So, (crossover talk) I'm very excited about that too. So, not only do I lead, you know, eComm but also digital marketing, brand marketing and creative. And that's why I joined because I've been working for so many brands. And I've been frustrated as many marketers not being able to break silos like if you just did marketing and creative or brand marketing, creative you go back, you know, the digital marketing team to get some dollars attributed to brand equity, or you work in eComm and eComm doesn't get you know, the love from the,
Michael LeBlanc 09:27
Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 09:28
Creative team. So, being able to oversee these, these four groups and to create what I call a lab in marketing, I really believe there's a new way to be a CMO today. And a CMO has to embrace eComm performance, brand equity, as well as, you know, customer engagement. So, I am very excited about that. So, it's been a year now.
Michael LeBlanc 09:48
Oh, it's been a year and now it hasn't been a year for Hanky Panky. I think it was 45 years ago, the entrepreneurs, Lida Orzeck and Gail Epstein founded it. It took off in the 80s by inventing this great comfortable thong. I see that, I see that heritage still in your logo, right? And even, even the icon-ography of that is really, clearly a key part. You got a new CEO, Brenda Berger, the founders I hear are still involved. What's it like to work there? I mean, you know, you went from the softer side of Sears, talk about, you know, a large to a small niche, with a great origin story out of, out of the culture and the origin story. How does that all play together? As you think about, you know, not the past, but more focused on future and growth?
Sabrina Cherubini 10:33
Yeah, it's, you know, the culture is so important in this company. You know, usually when you interview people, you're talk about the culture for like two minutes, right? But it's, it's very, it's very important there first, you, you're, you're right to remi-, to remind me, it's two female founders, who created a company in 1977. So, that's bold.
Michael LeBlanc 10:46
Yeah, (crossover talk).
Sabrina Cherubini 10:48
That very,
Michael LeBlanc 10:50
Early.
Sabrina Cherubini 10:51
They're still here, like, they're still, they still own the company. They developed the company out of it, you know, was mostly in wholesale. So, we're in our department stores here in the US, as well as in 60 countries, that they developed it with one thing in mind, caring about women, they weren't, they never cared about growing for the sake of growing. It was really about caring for women, so they never looked at, you know, even competitors or getting a cheaper product. Most of our manufacturing is here in New York, which is, you know, amazing, done in a sustainable way. Because they really care about women, how they move, how they connect emotionally with their lingerie. And that's what made them successful. They've been profitable for 45 years, every single year, they grew organically, but they didn't want to grow in a non-sustainable way.
And I think their story is so inspiring. (Inaudible) it inspired me, it inspired our CEO to join us two years ago, to say, hey, can we bring this product to more women, the product you refer to is the most comfortable thong in the world, it still it was copied, a million times and never matched. That's why you know, you have a jewel, woman who did an amazing job of designing and producing an amazing product, but they didn't get yet at least, the people, the teams to scale it. Being still respectful of the heritage, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 12:34
Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 12:35
That they develop. They're still with me every single day, not into daily affairs, but they're making sure that I'm respectful and I celebrate their heritage, which I do, it's very top of mind for me. But I think there are ways to grow this brand and scale this one. So, as I said to Veronika, it's the joining of a heritage US brand, but bringing a startup mindset to it.
Michael LeBlanc 12:49
Interesting.
Sabrina Cherubini 12:50
The highly customer focused approach, not to the way they design but the way we do our marketing, the way we reach our customers, the way we descend and interact with our customers. That's why I needed to get you know, my hands on not only marketing, but also eComm and getting these channels to be able to develop a holistic approach to the way we bring these products to life. So, the culture is, to what I said, very respectful of the heritage, highly focused on women and caring for women in everything we do, and sustainability is at the top of what we do. Our cotton comes, the SUPIMA® cotton, it's grown in California, our warehouse and our sewers are here in New York, our (inaudible) house is in New Jersey. So, it's really having some control over how to make an amazing product, something you cannot do overseas. So, it's very purpose driven. And I think that's why when everyone was, you know, struggling to hire times, and now people are looking for a purpose and I am too. So, being aligned on values like this was, you know, central in my choice, and I think my team is growing and making the choice to join this journey.
Michael LeBlanc 14:31
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with her interview with Sabrina Cherubini, Senior Vice President Brand and Digital Marketing at Hanky Panky right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 14:52
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Veronika Sonsev 15:18
It sounds like such a great company with such amazing energy, but also just like the heri-, being so present to the heritage having the founders is a very special opportunity. One thing you mentioned was that you now have two stores. Congratulations on that. That's pretty amazing. And I understand that you plan to expand your US retail footprint with 10 more stores or is it nine more stores by 2025? Talk about Hanky Panky's retail strategy, and how does it fit with your overall growth plans for the brand?
Sabrina Cherubini 15:51
I think it started initially like, you know, we grew out of wholesale right, we were still growing with our key partners with Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's, with Macy's, every, with everyone. But at the same time, you don't have control over how their brand is showing up. You don't have control over the experience, even if they're doing an amazing job. But it was really the moment for us to really show up as a brand to really engage with our customers. When we say we care about the woman, you know, the stories, there's nothing more intimate than intimates, right?
Sabrina Cherubini 16:03
So, it's not just about pushing products, it's understanding what women go through (inaudible) pregnancy, many clothes, young women, they go through a lot of things and they need education, sometimes they need some advice. And, and, and a brand they can trust like 45 years ar-, around. So, it was really a time for us to connect directly with customers. So, for myself I joined this because of my DTC background. And they wanted to expand there, but also having stores you can feel the products, you can feel the softness of the lace, you can feel the comfort, you can have this direct interaction. And we're using our stores not just as you know, a channel, we're hosting events, we have experts coming in and speakers, to engage in discussions.
Sabrina Cherubini 16:36
And something that we're very passionate about is breaking all these taboos. Only 29% of women feel represented in advertising, we grew it by a few points these past few years, because we're more diverse in body shapes, in skin colors. But it's only 29% of women. So, there's something wrong, right. So, if you don't start with the most intimate products, to say, hey, let's break these taboos, let's have a non-judgmental moment. So, that's what our stores are for. So, it's very important that we have the right people in our stores, that we create this feeling, we create these stores with this idea of reproducing your closet with this intimacy. So, you, you really feel you are in a, in a safe environment to be able to talk about whatever, your C-section or you (inaudible) your body changed, and you don't feel like you were before or everything that we all go through that aren't taboo. I have a lot of strong societal norms to it. That's what we intend on breaking, and it's been exciting. Our performances are way above our initial expectations. So yes, we'll continue on this journey. I think next, we're looking at other big cities in the US. So, they're excited about that.
Veronika Sonsev 18:50
That's so great. So, it sounds like the stores are a combination of like your expression of the brand, but also like a hub for the community to be able to really share their experiences and just feel like there's a place for them to go and be able to kind of feel at home, which is powerful kind of creating that, that type of hub,
Sabrina Cherubini 19:08
Then we were so lucky to have such a strong fan base. I've never seen that. Like it's, it's not a customer base, it's a fan base. Veronika, I go to your events every time you put this badge on me with Hanky Panky. I have, I would say 80% of the women come to me and say you guys are game changers who I love you guys so much. That's not something that I experienced before. And I think you know; it gets you motivated every day to do even better.
Veronika Sonsev 19:39
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And one thing you mentioned is you talked about kind of sexual wellness. And I want to kind of jump off at that point because you just launched a new sexual wellness eCommerce destination & oh. Talk about the launch and how you see the brand expanding to new categories because this is a category expansion for Hanky Panky, right.
Sabrina Cherubini 20:00
It is absolutely and so that's a perfect example to show you how being able to work with an amazing eComm team, brand marketing team, performance team and creative team can bring some magic to life. So, when I started, I noticed that we had such a really nice increase in sales and everything around, you know, we can call it like your more sexy lingerie, bodysuits and, and lace panties. And I asked my team, what's going on there? So, we really started to look at, you know, the data on our eComm. And we saw that he was really driven by your younger generation, and Gen Z specifically. And we started to dig into that.
Sabrina Cherubini 20:28
And my performance team started to say, listen, let's put you know, some ads out there and see if we can boost it a little bit more. My creative director said let's do, like a quick photo shoot, because he was not shown the way we thought was appropriate to our brand. So, it's a very modern, sensual photo shoot where it's really more about how you feel when you are in sexy lingerie than what you project to someone else. And we started to test you know, with some ads out there. And we saw like, we saw triple digit increase in sales immediately.
Michael LeBlanc 20:47
Wow.
Sabrina Cherubini 20:48
So, my role also impacts design and merge. So, what we said, just, let's really create a destination to engage with this woman to give them more opportunities to foster a better relationship with their bodies, but also be educated and, and, and really focus on the female guide. We started to do also a quick survey and a quick survey, it was 4000 US women, and specifically, Gen Z, they're leading a revolution around sexual awareness that I've never seen before. They want to be better represented; they don't want to talk about their sexuality based on having a potential partner. It's really about understanding myself; they've been you know, they grew out of being social, they don't know what, how to present themselves in the real world. So, it's really about themselves, their positive pleasure, and, and having your brand that they can trust to guide them in this journey.
Sabrina Cherubini 21:09
So, we created & oh, on our website, it's a separate you know, experience, because something else we learned is that older generations are not ready to have this discussion. Not all of them. So, it's really a specific experience. We launched with influencers; we had an amazing PR event. And we have great partners like Dame, LELO, Apotek. And, again, this is still tested, if it's growing, if it, if it shows you know, even more potential, then we're investing in developing more products. So, marketing and eComm is not just here to sell products, it's here to inform the company on where they should invest for the future. So, we have a lot of tests like this, where you know, we invested a little bit, but we know when, when you know it pays off in how to invest in the future. So, I'm very excited about that one.
Veronika Sonsev 23:31
Yeah, that's so cool. And I love how it kind of sprung out of insights like a survey, your customers could of gave you some feedback about how they look at their own kind of sexual wellness, and then just out of that you, you had all this opportunity, and then you're testing, you know, how do I respond to that? What's our role in this, in this customer need?
Sabrina Cherubini 23:51
But it goes back to having like 10 years in like, emotional insights, like customers insights, you know, word and then 10 years in like full on like customer data and, and predictive analytics and being able to always balance both and being able to work with a talented creative team so they can express it. But also, with a performance team who will make sure that it drives, you know, top line sales, it has been magic so far. We're seeing, you know, strong growth at the brand level.
Veronika Sonsev 24:27
Well, you seemed to have joined Hanky Panky at an exciting time. What else is on the horizon for you?
Sabrina Cherubini 24:32
I got so many so many different tests. I think there's something that gets me very excited. We have this product, the one you mentioned before, that has been around for some time now. But it has been a game changer for so many women. My main goal for the future is really to reclaim this one. To reclaim that you know you can, you can produce, you can design a product, you don't have to bring units every single week. If this product is right on point and has been appreciated as a five-star product, how do you really take it as an original product and revisit it in different ways? So, that's one thing that I'm passionate about is getting these products in more women's hands, because it's been a game changer.
Sabrina Cherubini 25:01
But it also creates strong partnerships. I think, at this point we're working with future on this, we're working on future collaborations, one coming at the end of the year with a high-end designer, who shares the same values. We're working with some celebrities also who have been, you know, Hanky Panky fans for so long, or would like you to have that. But also, with some brands who share, that share really the, the same values, the same intent, the same genuine intent and you know, uplifting women emotionally and physically. It doesn't have to be lingerie. I think we, there are amazing brands out there that could be potential partners for our growth. I would say at last it's really our global expansion. We're in several countries, we're very strong in Japan, we're growing double digits there in Europe as well. But there is no limit, I think, to the expansion of the brand. So, these are, I would say the three main bucket list for me.
Michael LeBlanc 26:31
I thought, I thought when Veronika and I came up with these questions, I thought it was an odd question in one way, because there's already so much going on. It's like, what's next? Everything, there's so much going on. But it's a really great articulation of even in all the things you're doing opening stores and growing in new categories, it's so interesting.
Michael LeBlanc 26:46
Let's shift gears a little bit, I want to talk about the tradecraft of your role, as you said, you know, it straddles between digital and brands. So, in the same room, in your meetings, or online, or wherever you've got both performance marketers and storytellers, right. And you need to kind of think in that left and right brain as well. So, I think the audience would be really interested to hear about, you know, how do you, how do you master both in such a way that they work together? You know, one plus one equals three kinds of things? Because that's really the objective of what I think you've set out to do. And how do you intentionally seek to get, to get good at both. You've talked about, you know, purposefully getting better at, at digital analytics over the course of your career, talk about how you bring those together, again, to make one plus one equals three and the tradecraft behind that?
Sabrina Cherubini 27:38
I think that's a great question, because I'm still figuring that out to be honest. But I would say it always goes back to the customers always. I was, you know, lucky enough to grow my team, I have amazing years of reporting to me, who shared the same vision, who were at least open minded to say, yes, I've been doing this job, like, let's think of the head of eComm, right. They've been doing their job in a way for so long, to embrace a new approach to it. To still keep you know what I learned before, but really embrace the power of a strong creative. Embrace the power of a great story, embrace the power and I can tell you; I have examples of when we launched bridal for example, and we said we want to just invest on performance and bridal, we will start advertising to her when she starts her journey. And you know, a woman who gets married, they start way ahead like the year before and then start creating boards on Pinterest. And my head of eComm was like, Sabrina, why are we spending money on Pinterest? Like it's driving so much traffic? But they're not converting, not yet.
Michael LeBlanc 28:30
Yet right. Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 28:32
So, you cover your customer journey before you even have your product to sell if I may say, because that's how you convert right? Bridal has been up 300 digits, 200% Just because we really understood how this customer behaves. So, I would say it's not about forcing anything. It's maybe running a few tests at the beginning to show the power of us working together. So, I have the head of eComm, head of digital marketing, head of brand and head of creative and have these leadership teams working hands on hands and understanding that, you know, the power of the story or the visual in performance marketing is huge. But it goes back to the customer at the beginning. What do we know? What do we want to see? What are the signals we're seeing?
Michael LeBlanc 29:43
Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 29:44
And each of them has seen, they see signals and we, we talk about them when we learned it said you know the surveys thing? Yes, then we survey them, we ask questions, we try to dig (inaudible) deeper, and then create the experience that will really tie everything together.
Michael LeBlanc 30:07
Like that, like those short-, medium- and long-term objectives that you described in bridal, right? In other words, the, you know, the journey starts a long way away, and you're not going to get a lot of performance out of those vehicles (crossover talk), media, right?
Sabrina Cherubini 30:13
And I do it on purpose, because I know at least I assume it will pay off at some point. But at the same time, I'm lucky enough to work on a brand that is like selling at more than 90% full price. So yes, imagine these past few,
Michael LeBlanc 30:37
Yeah.
Sabrina Cherubini 30:38
Let's take this last two months. Yes, we're also dealing with inventory, and we're not you know, we live in the same world? Will I go and promote and put deals out there every day and impact my brand equity and my, my brand as a whole? No, because you have to think long term, you have to ride this wave and make sure that you get out of it stronger. And that's the,
Michael LeBlanc 30:54
The benefit of a private company, you've got that kind of you know,
Sabrina Cherubini 30:58
Exactly you can do that,
Michael LeBlanc 31:)3
Take a breath and (crossover talk),
Sabrina Cherubini 31:04
Being aligned with the founders, with the CEO in doing that and being on the same page, because he's not just mindful,
Michael LeBlanc 31:10
You've had an impressive career on both sides of the table, and around other corners of the table. So, talk about, you know, what, what , what would one or two are the kind of key lessons you made if you if you made any missteps and retrace your steps at any point, and really basically advice for the folks listening, who might want to go down a similar journey, maybe they're, maybe they're on the agency side today listening, or maybe they're on the other side of the table, talk about wh-, wh-, what you'd share with the listeners.
Sabrina Cherubini 31:35
I would take two examples that are totally different. The first one was, at some point in my career, I was not embracing an opportunity that was given to me. I started when I moved to San Francisco from Paris, I started to work for Kmart and Sears Apparel business unit. They brought in a new president, a new leader, and he created a new leadership team. And we turned around this business within one year and a half, from being down $100 million in EBITDA to being positive 200 million,
Michael LeBlanc 31:52
Wow.
Sabrina Cherubini 31:53
Which is amazing, right? And then Sears Holdings asked me to join their CRM team. I came from brand marketing and creative and the day they asked me to do that I had no choice, that was you know, based on the successes they wanted to bring in and then after that's exactly when after a month, I realized the amount of data I had access to. Sears had more than 100 million contacts in their file,
Michael LeBlanc 32:05
Wow.
Sabrina Cherubini 32:06
Being able to extract actionable data. And that is really what would make a difference at Ann Inc. It was the same, the CEO said to me, Sabrina, I'm getting 100 spreadsheets, what is important and what can move our business forward? And I really started to embrace that one out of not wanting this role. And I learned so much. So, I would say that one piece of advice would be to be open minded. Sometimes it's not because you spent 10 years doing something that you like that you don't have anything to learn. So, I really continue doing it that way at Hanky Panky, I'm learning a lot of things now being in the, in the C Suite to you know, how to run a company, how to make you know, hard decisions, and then really hands on in our finance and P&L. So, that is something that really, I am, I am lucky I had this opportunity because would I've done it myself, I don't know. So, that's one thing.
Sabrina Cherubini 33:29
The second thing is leadership. I cannot stress enough how important it is to grow as a leader as an authentic leader. I make mistakes, of course, in my journey, you know, mistakes, and I, being someone with great potential and thinking that they're all (inaudible) as ambitious as I am. But not everyone's the same, right? So, it's really understanding what energizes people and what will make a difference for them. And it's not always the way you think, and people have different journeys. And I think I'm still growing as a leader. But the main mistakes I've made were really, we're really on the human side of things and being authentic to who you are. Because you can, you don't have to force anything. And I think you know, you leave because of the leader that you have in a company, or you stay with this leader and I'm staying for the leaders I have today, also. So that's to me, it will still be my, I will still be in this journey for the next, I don't know, 20 years or 30 years.
Veronika Sonsev 35:01
That's awesome. I think anybody would be lucky to work for you and to and for this amazing kind of entrepreneurial company. And to that effect, I always see you posting about new roles at Hanky Panky on LinkedIn. Are there any exciting roles that you're currently looking to fill? Maybe our community could have some folks that would be good fits for that, for those opportunities?
Sabrina Cherubini 35:24
Yes, we've been recruiting a lot. In 2022. I think I have a great team in place right now, I think main roles or main opportunities will come from the CRM and loyalty side of my team, where we're like, getting our muscles ready to really grow our retention approach. So, that's one thing. Brand marketing, social media is always, you know, a focus for us. We just hired for this role and are excited about that. And on the self-side, I think growing and expanding internationally, being able to have people who are passionate about growing and expanding brands, but not the way they used to do in a purpose driven way, and, and really true to who we are in our culture. I think that's where you know, where we will spend most of our time recruiting.
Veronika Sonsev 36:27
That's awesome. That's so great to hear. And I love that one of them is a CRM role, so they can have the same opportunity as you had to kind of learn how to get those insights out of the customer file. Well, Sabrina, thank you so much for joining us today and for giving us a peek into both the heritage and the growth story of Hanky Panky, which is just fantastic. We loved your career advice. It was truly wonderful to have you on today's show.
Sabrina Cherubini 36:50
Thank you both for having me and Happy Holidays to everyone.
Michael LeBlanc 36:55
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform, where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events. We harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com.
Have a fantastic week everyone
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
brand, hanky panky, growing, customer, joined, amazing, product, stores, Sabrina, brands, create, heritage, talk, performance, driven, role, women, havas