In a revealing interview that will be a must-listen-to for any retailer working at or building a direct-to-consumer brand, Brooklinen founder & CEO Rich Fulop joins us on the podcast to share the inspiring story of building a successful brand literally from the bedroom out.
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
In a revealing interview that will be a must-listen-to for any retailer working at or building a direct-to-consumer brand, Brooklinen founder & CEO Rich Fulop joins us on the podcast to share the inspiring story of building a successful brand literally from the bedroom out.
Rich shares with my co-host Veronika Sonsev how the laser-like focus on building success to last had Rich originally bootstrapping the business from his savings, forcing the company to be profitable from day one.
He then takes us through the decisions and journey behind multiple rounds of private equity funding that changed the trajectory of the business. Lastly, Rich shares his personal experience as an entrepreneur and lessons learned.
About Rich
Rich Fulop is a first-generation American, an avid skier, a huge Arsenal fan, and he just so happens to make the Internet’s Favorite Sheets. While at NYU’s Stern School of Business, Rich and his wife and Brooklinen co-founder, Vicki, went on vacation and had a life-altering encounter with a set of delectable bedding that inspired the creation of Brooklinen. Today, Rich remains fully immersed in every aspect of the business and continues to prioritize best practices from responsive manufacturing to authentic customer service, supporting small-scale entrepreneurs across the globe, and giving back to communities across the U.S. to bring the brand’s mission statement - We Want You To Be Comfortable - to all.
About Veronika
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
About Scott
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
About Michael
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
ccns3e3-2022-06-08-4-31-am
Tue, 6/14 7:05PM • 35:49
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, customer, brand, stores, business, sheets, scale, expertise, front, product, hiring, podcast, inaudible, strategy, ecommerce, wholesale, companies, point, talk, rich
SPEAKERS
Veronika Sonsev, Rich Fulop, Michael LeBlanc
Michael LeBlanc 00:05
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
Michael LeBlanc 00:13
In a revealing interview that will be a must-listen-to for any retailer working at or building a direct-to-consumer brand, Brooklinen founder and CEO, Rich Fulop joins us on the podcast to share the inspiring story of building a successful brand literally, from the bedroom out.
Michael LeBlanc 00:28
Rich shares with my co-host Veronika Sonsev, how the laser-like focus on building success to last had Rich originally bootstrapping the business from his savings, forcing the company to be profitable from day one.
Michael LeBlanc 00:42
He then takes us through the decisions and journey behind the multiple rounds of private equity funding that changed the trajectory of the business. Lastly, Rich shares his personal experience as an entrepreneur and lessons learned.
Rich Fulop 00:56
You have to be comfortable without structure. It’s the most important thing, I think. And that's something that I I'm very, very transparent with every candidate that I interview, because I want to make sure that they have the, the DNA to succeed here.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
Let's listen in now.
Veronika Sonsev 01:13
So, Rich, welcome to Conversations with CommerceNext, your keynote at last year's CommerceNext Summit was a huge hit. And we're thrilled to have you join the podcast to give our community an update on the Brooklinen business.
Rich Fulop 01:27
Happy to be here. Thanks so much.
Veronika Sonsev 01:30
Well, I'm joined here with the producer and co-host of Conversations with CommerceNext, Michael LeBlanc.
Michael LeBlanc 01:35
Hi, Rich, nice to meet you. Where are we finding you today?
Rich Fulop 01:38
We're in Brooklyn, New York.
Veronika Sonsev 01:40
So, Rich, I'll get right into it. You started Brooklinen with your wife, Vicki, when you were in business school, give us a brief summary of the founding story and why you thought there was an opportunity for a company like Brooklinen to exist?
Rich Fulop 01:54
Sure, I'll try and be brief because I could take all day also, if I was given it on this question. In, in short, my wife and I were, were very much like our first customers. And we were frustrated with what we found out there that both met our aesthetic and our budget at the time. I was a student. And she worked for a public relations agency at that time so, we aspired to have, and we really liked you know, everyone knows that feeling of like, wow, those, that was a really comfortable bed. And that was really, really comfy sheets. When you've experienced it, you kind of know it. And when they're terrible, people wake up, we're like, that pillow is terrible, right? It's something that kind of pops up after experiences we wanted the good stuff, we just couldn't afford it.
Rich Fulop 02:37
And then from a branding perspective, there was nothing that really spoke to us that we were you know, in our mid-20s, we were, we were predisposed to buy online a lot. And there was no other brand that was doing direct-to-consumer in the category, say, here's the best product from the best supplier with a brand that resonates with you and will deliver to you tomorrow, it was more of just like when you need it, go to the store and look around and find the best option and take it to the register. It was like a very similar for lack of a better example, experience to buying toilet paper. In that sense, you would go there and whatever is on the shelf, you would go because you got to take it away. You need new sheets, where we thought we can inspire people and say, how often do you change them? Do you have heavier sheets in the winter lighter sheets in the summer? Does it match your decor? Do you personalize it by mixing and matching? So, there's a lot of like functions and components of the business that were very differentiated at the time when we started the business.
Veronika Sonsev 02:37
Awesome. And I listened to your how I built this podcast. And I, I thought it was really great when you talked about even just educating consumers on how to buy sheets because like many consumers, I bought based on thread count. And then I think, you know, this category of D2C bedding companies really kind of helped educate consumers on how to look at the whole market.
Rich Fulop 03:48
Yeah, we take you know, more numeric and scientific approach to it. I, Idon't think every single player does like the best job of explaining it to the customer, you know, beyond showing, you have to show beautiful pictures and you know, have the supply chain and everything but the customer really likes to consider the purchase and be educated on the products and something that was we found quite early.
Rich Fulop 04:08
So, you know, our what most people do and did is they think high qua-, higher thread count equals higher quality, which means I will like it better, which means I'll sleep better, etcetera, which is not, which is actually not the case at all. Because most people get hot at night and like to sleep, they loved a lightweight sheet that's cool to the touch and cool sensation, not suffocating them. But they also want the good stuff so that when they get high thread count sheets, if it's not the right cotton, it actually becomes suffocating and less breathable and that. So, like shooting themselves in the foot in that sense in terms of what the product was.
Rich Fulop 04:39
So, like we'd like to explain that to people that our classic sheets, which was our first line that we launched, it really hit the notes that we were looking for. It's actually a lower head thread count sheet so it's super lightweight and breathable with a very high-quality cotton. So, it feels great but it's very, very breathable. And we want to explain that to you, so you feel informed about the purchase and if it's not for you, you like something that's a little heftier an so on, great, but at least you know what we're made of, is, is really our prospective.
Veronika Sonsev 05:05
And now you've really expanded well, you've expanded into a number of different materials and kind of types of sheets, but also into a whole range of products, towels, home goods, talk about the breadth of your offering today.
Rich Fulop 05:19
Yeah, it happened really organically over the years, it wasn't the plan. The plan was quite basic, when Vicki and I started the business, it was, let's just make sheets in two colors, you know, white and gray, and one fabric. And it’s really idiot proof because I kept, you know, complaining personally, that I didn't know how to shop for the product. I didn't know it was good was better, where do I go? And I wanted to make like the option that was for people like me, that was like, just buy this, you know, and I think there's, there's a Reddit thread that is like you know, shut up, shut up and take my money is, is what it is. And it's kind of like, this is great, I'll, I'll pay for it. So, that's really what we wanted to propose to the customer in that in that time, in terms of having our, our value proposition.
Rich Fulop 06:03
And then people loved the product, they wanted more colors. And then they wanted something that was you know; do you guys make linen? Do you guys make pillows? You don't make pillows? Who has the best pillows, and then we ended up pointing people in other directions, which was just foolish at the time, it was an opportunity for us to leverage the brand that we've built and the platform we built to build more and deliver more products and keep the customer rather than send them elsewhere? Like when we think about the opportunity with us for our relationship with our customers, it's quite large.
Rich Fulop 06:29
So, the first question that I heard from, from investors and people were, (inaudible) what you sell sheets, people buy sheets at once every two years, like how can you possibly make like a big business out of this? And that's just wrong. I mean, if you think about your own home, you take a step back, it's like, how many beds are in your house? And how many sets per bed? How many pillows are on each bed? How many blankets do you have? What's in the closet? What's on the couch? How many towels do you have? How many rooms do you have, and you add it all up in your house and it's like well, okay, there's a lot of stuff that's like in this category in my house. And that's an opportunity for us to serve the customer on that front. So, there's a lot more than meets the eye.
Veronika Sonsev 07:01
And, and it's nice that it kind of happened organically by the customers kind of directing you to the, to the next product. I want to switch gears and talk about the business. What I, what I think is so interesting about your founding story in Brooklinen was that, you know, because you weren't able to originally get funding, you bootstrapped the business from your savings, which forced the company to be profitable from the very beginning. How did this approach change your go-to-market strategy?
Rich Fulop 07:28
Yeah, it was a blessing in disguise, especially these days, when we look at the economic landscape at this point, and what the topics of conversation are, are, by necessity, we learned a lot of discipline at that time, and you know, how to make our how to make every dollar go as far as possible, and how to count every penny as well. And it was hard lessons learned on that.
Rich Fulop 07:48
So, it's, you know, we, we did it, we decided to do it ourselves. And because we had very little money into the business, we have to be very disciplined about it and make every dollar go far. So, we did a lot of things ourselves, rather than outsourcing it or hiring people we learned fast. And then, you know, figured out how to run the business and grow it. And then eventually, we raised money, mostly by necessity to fill different needs, either it was expertise, or there was resources that we need.
Rich Fulop 07:48
And it's not for lack of trying in full transparency, I, I spoke to a lot of investors, and I fielded a lot of questions of like, is this a viable business? Is it a big business, is it a serious business, you know, all these things. And I had to, I just decided to begin, I should just march off, put our own money behind it, which it wasn't a lot. And I know that's like a loose thing. It's like, oh, we use our savings. This is not a lot of savings. It was like $20,000 for us, okay, like it's not, it wasn't, it was towards the house, right? It's not like our house that we were trading at the time, right.
Rich Fulop 08:45
I'd say the first round of money that we raised from venture capital after, after bootstrapping it for four years, at four or five years at that point was for inventory, were just growing, and we couldn't get in front of the inventory to meet the demands. So, we were turning customers away, because oh, we won't get that back in stock for another month or two, which was just nonsensical. And, and when we had a good business and a good brand grow growing, so we had to raise money to get in front of that. It was the first time that we did, and it really took us to the next level. And then we were off the races, you know, after that.
Michael LeBlanc 09:15
So, continue on that thread of, of funding. And this isn't a finance podcast. But let's peel back that one a little bit. In terms of going to the private equity market first in 2021, I think and then in 2022. So, you what you're describing is, you know, get some more open to buy in the business and, and give yourself some financial flexibility. It was that the core to the strategy and does it give you any other options and talk about what your approach was and how you pointed to that strategy?
Rich Fulop 09:43
Yeah, so we've done three rounds of institutional fundraising and they were all for a very, very different purpose at the time. So, we ran a profitable business from the get-go because we had to when it was just in our apartment and it was just us. So, it was small at the time, started small and slow, but it was profitable when we got the wheels turning on that front.
Rich Fulop 10:02
The first one was we needed more capital to fund the business. So, we eventually had to hire some people. And we had to buy more inventory to expand. That was in 2017, we grew the business quite substantially at that point. And then in 2020, we partnered with a private equity firm because of their expertise, and, you know, their proposition to us in terms of partnership, and, you know, having experience working with likeminded companies and their network, and they have a track record of taking a lot of companies public that, you know, look like us and whatnot. And if it's an effort, aspiration that we have, and always have to get it as big as possible, it was the right thing to do, because I know what I know. And I know what I don't know.
Rich Fulop 11:11
And then at the next level, it was about finding partnerships to unlock the next level to where I can be a little closer to that in terms of breaking down the doors to next level. So, Summit is a huge eCommerce business, businesses that expand internationally, as well. And that was Summit Partners in 2020. And put a lot of structure in place.
Rich Fulop 11:32
So, we filled out our C-Suite after that, and you know, we really, really built up the team. And then last year, we partnered with a firm, Freeman Spogli. They have entirely different expertise also in retail, but more in brick and mortar and really growing companies in the retail channel, which is something that we're very, very focused on now, we have the, the mothership, so to say of our you know, brooklinen.com is a well-oiled machine, but we have a lot of opportunity getting in front of a new customer in retail locations. And that's their expertise, you know, have you known, of companies that open 50-100 stores per year, which is just insane to me, but being able to speak to the other founders in the portfolio and to their partners there. It's a huge, huge resource to get us to the next level.
Michael LeBlanc 12:13
It's really interesting as you describe it even the way you're describing it, it's less about financial flexibility, though, of course, that's the kind of the foundation but the way you chose your partner to fill out gaps, whether is leadership strategy, or just business strategy. Is, is that did you audition private equity firms? Or did you seek out particular ones that you had heard had that particular expertise? Or is that how you kind of just went about it from a tradecraft perspective?
Rich Fulop 12:38
Yeah, I mean, like, the partnership is critical, because we're playing the long game here. And I'm very focused on you know, getting it to the, to the highest level of, you know, running a business and, and but there is a financial component, of course, in the short term of that, and that's why, you know, people do these, these deals by, by and large, in addition to tell the expertise, so I don't want to like, you know, I don't want to ignore that. But there was a lot of demand. I mean, we have a good brand and a good category, as I said, with a big opportunity that's growing. So, they, they approached me in both cases, and had seen a lot of our competitors or category or other brands. And were really looking for the unit economics and the margin and the team strategy that we had the roadmap that we had, -
Michael LeBlanc 13:20
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform, so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be back with our interview with Rich Fulop from Brooklinen right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 13:33
After two years of unprecedented growth, some think eCommerce has hit its peak. So, what comes next? As businesses look to enter the next era of eCommerce growth CommX serves as a guide to get them there. Led by best-in-class technology providers across the commerce ecosystem, including Bloomreach, Miracle, Sinch, ShipBob, and Avalara. CommX offers exclusive research, benchmarking, data and more empowering businesses to deliver a commerce experience that drives measurable revenue growth. Learn more, at commerceexperience.com. That's commerce experience.com.
Rich Fulop 14:08
At the end of the day, all of our partners from our investment partners, they don't, they don't necessarily they give me guidance. They don't tell me you need to do this. And this is what we say because they know that,
Michael LeBlanc 14:17
You're tapping into their expertise. I mean, that's, that's what you're describing here, right? Not, yeah, yeah.
Rich Fulop 14:22
Yeah. And they're, they know that I'm way in it, and they, they trust me to execute and to lead the team on that, which is really, really great. But on the flip side, they've, you know, when it during those discussions, you know, when we were deciding whether to work with each other. I told them what my ideas were and where I saw the business and here's what we're going to need. And here's what we're going to do, and I want to open up stores and I want to hire you know, this, this person or that person. After we closed the deal, they were like, Okay, great. Here's the checklist you talked about, now, go do it. No, seriously, you know, 110 days, this list 180 days, that sounds like a great plan, go do it. And I actually appreciated this structure and that kick in the butt. That was, that was like, Okay, great. I'm going to go get these things done. I was going to do it anyway. And now we got a partner.
Michael LeBlanc 14:23
Fantastic. Well, you've given us a nice segue into talking about growth and stores. So, you had a store, I believe, before the pandemic start, was it six stores you've opened this year and then you're on track, I believe you're on track to open something like 25 to 30 by 2024. So, this is a big topic (inaudible). Let's, let's, let's start peeling it back. So, you know, when we talk to retailers, you know, if we were having this discussion, 20 years ago, we'd be talking about productivity measures and, and sales per square foot measures, as, -
Rich Fulop 15:34
We still are, -
Michael LeBlanc 15:35
you still are right. I mean, that doesn't go away. It's and I suppose but talk about how stores fit in this growth strategy, what the purpose is, and how you see this growth with physical stores.
Rich Fulop 15:45
It's tricky. And I, it's a lot like, you know, it's, it's a lot of the alchemy, and it's a lot like cooking with us, because it's like, you can't just take if you have a recipe, right? And the ingredients, you can't just take all the ingredients and just dump them in and turn up the heat and walk away. It's like, there's a timing (inaudible) process.
Michael LeBlanc 18:04
it's once again, follow a, qui-, kind of a quick thread, is it our stores, would they be little distribution points for you? Are you all those kinds of elements are you, are you, you know, are you going the malls or highli-, main streets like just I'm so fascinated by the decisions and choices you're going to make because they aligned to your brand, you're very thoughtful about the strategy. So, just touch on that for a few minutes, if you could, -
Rich Fulop 18:25
Sorry, I, I gave you the backstory and forgot to we have four stores open right now six that are ready, I mean two more that are ready and opening imminently, probably in the next 30 days. So, we have Manhattan store Brooklyn store, we have a Santa Monica store and a Philadelphia store. And we have stores construction completed.
Rich Fulop 18:46
And we're essentially just like onboarding the staff and getting the permits and everything to open the (inaudible) occupancy in San Francisco and Portland, Oregon, as well. So, those are the first six, that if you if you look at those six markets, they're all very different in terms of like modes of transportation density, who lives there, demographics. So, the plan is we're not opening any more stores in the second half of this year. And that is by design.
Rich Fulop 18:46
And we have a lot more irons in the fire. We're now going to Chicago store that's already committed for next year as well. But we really want to learn about our store experience. And we look at those metrics. So, we have a Santa Monica store that's 3700 square feet. And we have our West Village store, which is like 1500 square feet. So, to understand the productivity for our new brand between those stores.
Rich Fulop 19:31
Now the rent is also tricky. You have West Village Manhattan versus Santa Monica, right. So, but the size like it's a very experimental we might hit the pay dirt in on Main Street, or in the mall or in the center of the city. We love we're experimenting with all these, and we got to figure out which one works the best of all of them and then double down on those essentially. So, all six of these look different and it's very exciting to I'm very curious quite honestly to see what comes out the other side, you know, -
Veronika Sonsev 20:02
and love that, it's almost like you're, you're using these diff-, six initial stores to be your test beds to then figure out how you should scale your whole retail strategy. It's a great (inaudible), -
Michael LeBlanc 20:12
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Michael LeBlanc 20:12
just six stores and the six markets and the 1000s of people in it are like an unknowing focus group essentially, like effectiveness on this.
Rich Fulop 20:20
Yeah, but no, it's good. And we're learning a lot about our customer, and our customer is changing over the last 10 years, you know who it was to who it is like, we still have the same customers, but it's just encompasses a lot more people and a lot of different parts of the country where our business was so concentrated here in Brooklyn, and in New York for the first few years, just because we that's where we we knew people and the brand. You know, we were readver-, you know, we were we readvertised and so on. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 21:28
and the category has changed somewhat too, right? The COVID era has meant more people had more focus on the home. And they kind of delved deep into those things right back to what you're talking about, you know, let's not just by on thread count, let's that's understand it a bit better. So, that you, your, your, your environments changing at the same time that your business is, right, which is still fascinating, -
Rich Fulop 21:33
and I mean, look at the fundamental metrics, you know, people have, you know, moved out of cities into suburbs, you know, the new homes, you know, starts and everything are up by in large for the last two years, you know, those are all indicators for us. You look at the big box stores have largely been, you know, the disappointing earnings or whatnot. And like, it's not to celebrate that or anything, of course, but it's just market dynamics is, you know, the brands that look and feel like ours have, have a really good opportunity.
Veronika Sonsev 22:15
Rich, I wanted to change gears a little bit and talk about wholesale. Because a lot of everything we've talked about today is your is really your D2C business, whether it's online or in stores. But we've seen that, you know, many D2C brands are starting to move into wholesale as a way to reach more customers. Is that something that you've tried, do you have plans in this area,
Rich Fulop 22:36
We have a few wholesale relationships, mostly in the wedding registry space. Our again, our product makes a lot of sense in there, we have no traditional wholesale partnerships with big box stores, or department stores or even like mainstream real retailers, we have none right now. So, at this point, we have such little penetration in the grand scheme of things. And the brand is so new and so small in the grand scheme of things of like the United States, the world, all brands and retail and market share that I feel like there's a lot to, to still figure out on that front. And I want to control as much as I can in terms of the product, the packaging, the customer experience and the feedback.
Rich Fulop 23:16
I mean, you'll learn a lot honestly, in the like unsexy stuff for the businesses, you learn a lot in the customer service chats and your returns data is like you can really analyze that and see what people like, what they don't and why and ask questions. And if you lose that feedback loop, in the interest of more scale, you'll lose margin and you lose that feedback, which is bad. So, I am interested in wholesale at some point in the future, but not in the near term just because I want to keep my eyes and arms on, on those, those other pieces.
Veronika Sonsev 23:49
And that seems to be pretty consistent with, with that D2C playbook, you know, you own it as much as you can you learn about the customer. And then at some point, I mean, even Allbirds, at this point is going into wholesale, or at least announced that they were going into wholesale, because there's so much scale there.
Rich Fulop 23:49
Yeah, well, I mean, you get scale. But, you know, again, another piece, (crossover talk), you love to come to another Pe-, yeah, it's, it's a different complexity, a different supply chain management, and it really changes your product margin, which you know, fundamentally changes your business and you know, the (inaudible) at the bottom and what you can and can't marketing tolerances on those fronts. So, it changes your business in the interest of a lot of scale. Also, like once that flips around, it's really, really hard to reverse the reliance on wholesale.
Veronika Sonsev 24:38
I want to go a little deeper on the digitally native D2C model because I think there's been, you know, a lot of scrutiny over the last year particularly some of the things that have recently been affected as you know, many brands are not able to scale or continue to scale given the rising acquisition costs. Now you have inflationary pressure. What are your thoughts on some of these industry challenges? And I guess like how does how does Brooklinen plan to overcome these kinds of macro factors that are impacting so many in the industry?
Rich Fulop 25:10
Scale is the issue and the answer. So, I think we're fortunate to be in a certain band of brands or companies that we have kind of broken through. And we have that, you know, as I like to say, like the escape velocity in rocket sense on that to, to escape the atmosphere, and if you don't have an escape velocity, then it's probably hard times right now.
Rich Fulop 25:32
So, we were never overly reliant on Facebook, probably never more than 35% of our budget at the height. So, this is damaging, of course, as part of our funnel of what's going on out there. But it's not like we're solely relying on that at any point. Now, there are brands, there was a period of time where you could just plug in Facebook and Shopify, and you're off to the races, and you can get some scale. And I think that player that is still in that zone is probably a little bit in trouble at this point. But like I said, we have, we don't want to lose customers. And I said that when we expanded categories, you know, earlier, that's the most important thing for us
Rich Fulop 26:06
So, if we keep the customers we have, we have way more customers than, than others, you know, in the space, so we don't want to lose them. So, we want to keep delivering good quality products, good service, you know, timely marketing messages that are interesting. Like, it's important that like, if there's customer acquisition challenges out there, by in large, they're not unique to anybody in any category. And I talk to you talk to a lot of founders, I talk to a lot of founders, it's not unique to anyone, it's totally cuts across everything. It's just the economy at this point, then the customers that you have and have already acquired are twice as important on that front. So, it's our customers, it's our internal focus really on that.
Veronika Sonsev 26:43
(inaudible) there is CommerceNext research has also kind of shed light on that we've seen a lot of brands over this last year shift towards a retention focus, it sounds like you've always had that little bit of that customer or a lot of the customer obsession. But I think now more than ever, brands are doubling down on it. Because the more you can get from your existing customers, the more the better it is for the business.
Rich Fulop 27:03
Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's the most important thing, because it's hard to get customers and always has, it's hard for them to walk through your door and a brick-and-mortar store to discover you on Amazon, to find you on the internet and get an ad ahead of anyone else. It's hard. And it's like, once you get them on your site or in your store, somebody that's interested, you want to make sure that you're putting your best foot forward and you're not going to lose them. But the very least shooting yourself in the foot are just things that you can control what you can control, and you can't control what you can't control. So, we can control the customer experience and the product to the best of our ability, deliver as fast as possible, have compelling prices. And if we do that, like that's the best we could do. And we give the customer very little reason to go shop elsewhere is what our goal is.
Michael LeBlanc 27:52
Let's, let's shift gears, once again, this is our second shift of gears, not to even use the same metaphor twice. But, you know, we often like to in our podcasts talk about careers, career development. And and, you know, in your case, it's more about I think, advice for people like to fall in that same kind of path, right? You, you're a true entrepreneur, but you're very, you're very skilled at drawing and resources to fill, whether it's knowledge gaps, are our execution gaps, or finance gaps, what are your what's your advice to people who are looking to go on the same journey that the job again?
Rich Fulop 28:26
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things that I can that I came in, and it depends on kind of what stage are you, I think something that's like, a prayer, like the permanent in the journey, I should say, is just to be humble and continue to learn because the landscape and the world is always changing, and would work yesterday might not work tomorrow. So, you got to be on your toes, and just gotta be talking to people. So, I go to, I go to a lot of conferences, I always did. And I speak at some now, but I also go and attend the sessions. Because if I could come you know, tickets were you know, I was paying when I was attending and early days, I was paying as much as I could to attend. And I want to walk out of there with like, one game changing idea from the conference that I can go and test if I if I can listen closely and get one new idea that was nowhere on my radar that can move the needle for the business and try and test it that it was totally worthwhile. And you just have to, it's you've just accumulate a lot of those and there's no silver bullet, there's no of like, if I just do this, then we're gonna be huge. It's like so many micro decisions along the way. And you just gotta be patient and persistent and humble. You got a lot talk to a lot of people and there are things that work in mediums that like you can learn from the people, the people running the infomercial at the middle of the night for some obscure rotisserie product, right for years or whatever it is, I don't know. But like, there is a method to that madness. Like why are they at that time? You know, why? How long have they been doing it? You know, and different things. I'm not saying like that, but like Don't overlook any product or any space or anything, there's something to be learned from all those and like, that's something that's always been something that I've been pretty good at and persistent out of like trying to stay active and that not being No at all on that front. And then people gave me time and advice, and I tried to do the same. So, you know, I'm happy to do these types of discussions. I'm talking to entrepreneurs as well. But like, that's the most important thing is just be persistent. Be patient on this. And if you're building something, like Rome wasn't built in a day for another metaphor, right? It's it takes time to build something good.
Michael LeBlanc 30:30
Well from from an entrepreneurial journey to hiring employees. So, you're hiring employees. Now give us a sense of First of all, what do you look for what what when you're hiring people into your organization? What makes us successful hired at a DTC shop like yourself?
Rich Fulop 30:46
Yeah, you have to be, you have to be comfortable with our structure, it's the most important thing, I think, and it's something that I I'm very, very transparent with every candidate that I interview, and at this point in time, I don't interview every candidate anymore, but I do and at a certain level, or certain function, and above, because I want to make sure that they have the DNA to succeed here. And what that means is like, you gotta be a person that rolls up your sleeves and is willing to like, go find or go get what you need, or create your own processes. And I think that works, that that cuts the that's true for any startup, or DTC or not DTC, it's like, these, a company like ours is a young in the grand scheme of things. And most of the people that we've hired, have our net new jobs, we haven't lost a lot of people over the years. Like, it's, we have a phenomenal retention rate on that, on that on that note, but most jobs are not new. So, you're not inheriting someone's email and their seats and their contacts, you have to be ready to like, talk to everyone internally, what do you do? What do you do? What's my place? And I can't hold ever to anyone, everyone's hands. It's just impossible, right? I have a lot of tribal knowledge. But like, I don't, I can't people it's have to be ready to swim quickly. Pick a direction, I don't care, pick a direction and swim as fast as you can and find out what's there. But like, don't you can't be the kind of person that waits or tells me what to do. Or like, how do I get on the track, you have to be like the ready to run, run quickly. And that's a personality thing. That's not something that's hard to teach that that's something that people are either very eager go getters, or they're more passive on that front. And I want people to know that when they come in here. That's like, that's the whole process around your job, you have to make that your job is to make the process and you have to understand that.
Michael LeBlanc 32:34
Yeah, yeah, it's a very different path than going to work at Procter and Gamble, right? Yeah. Very different. Very different. Very different path, very different culture. You know, very similar. So, speaking of which, the mic is yours, we got a great audience, are you looking for any roles that you'd like to promote on the podcast to jump out for we are?
Rich Fulop 32:56
Honestly, we are, we are just opened up like the primo roll for like your space on it, which is like our first ever CMO we're hiring for. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 33:05
that's big news, big news.
Rich Fulop 33:08
That's been open for since the end of last week or so. So, it's just brand new in there. And we're, we're seeing a lot of talented candi-, applicants. But that's going to be a big one very strategic partner to myself at the next level. Like I said, this business is increasingly complex, we've never had a CMO. So, the person is not going to sit in another person's chair and like, let me see what the old CMO was doing and how to make it better. There's no that's not going to be here, right? You're the, you're the new CMO. And it's a CMOs a certain part of my brain that it's been for years that I have to, you know, pass on to somebody else, (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 33:44
And that's the part they're going to have to extract from right, because you've had so many roles. And (crossover talk), on the one hand, I'm sure you're just loving the idea of, of relinquishing that and building that expertise. But there'll be that'd be interesting, it'd be an interesting role for anybody I can imagine.
Rich Fulop 34:00
Well, yeah, It's a, it's, it's a big one for us. You know, we're definitely (crossover talk), speaking up in that sense. And we've hired in the last six months, we've hired a COO, COO, and a CFO as well. And you know, our Chief People Officer has been here for a while as well, growing the team and taking care of our team on that front. So, to have this complementary skill set with, with this level of experience has been hugely beneficial to us. And we'll do for the foreseeable future to get us to the next level like these people that we've brought in and the CMO, we will bring in will have incredible amounts of knowledge and experience that can help the team and, and me, -
Michael LeBlanc 34:00
(inaudible), Rich this has been such a great conversation. On behalf of Veronika and myself. Thanks so much for joining us today. Give us a peek under the covers, so to speak. Like what I did there, there you go. It's been a real pleasure having you on the show. And once again, thanks for sharing and expressing all the interesting things that are happening the business wish you much, much, much continued success and, and have a great rest of your day.
Michael LeBlanc 35:01
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of conversations with commerce. Next, please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon music or your favorite podcast platform, where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode.
Michael LeBlanc 35:18
CommerceNext is a community event series and conference from marketers at retail and direct to consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events. We harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com
Have a fantastic week everyone.