In this episode, we're diving into the fast-paced world of instant commerce with our guide Daniel Folkman, SVP of Gopuff. With a career built on startups and startup culture, Daniel takes us through the brand's origin story and the roadmap to innovation ahead. Next, he shares with us what it takes to be successful in a high-profile and fast-scaling startup and what he looks for in the people he brings into the team to drive continued success and new product development
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
In this episode, we're diving into the fast-paced world of instant commerce with our guide Daniel Folkman, SVP of Gopuff. With a career built on startups and startup culture, Daniel takes us through the brand's origin story and the roadmap to innovation ahead. Next, he shares with us what it takes to be successful in a high-profile and fast-scaling startup and what he looks for in the people he brings into the team to drive continued success and new product development
Links: https://gopuff.com/, https://gopuff.com/go/ads
About Daniel
Daniel Folkman is currently the Senior Vice President of Business at Gopuff, the go-to instant commerce platform that fulfills consumer's evolving everyday needs. In his current role, Daniel Folkman oversees the company's Global Business functions. Since joining Gopuff as one of the company's first employees, Folkman has been a key member of the executive team, helping the company scale to 500+ micro-fulfillment centers across more than 1,000 cities across the US and Europe.
During his more than six years with the company, he has spearheaded the company's fundraising and M&.A efforts, helping to raise more than $4B in funding and leading major transactions such as BevMo!, Liquor Barn, RideOS, Fancy, and Dija. Folkman originated the concept for Gopuff Ads - identifying the power of merging a culturally relevant brand and hyperlocal logistics with the needs of CPG companies. Today, Gopuff Ads commands sizable budgets from brands like PepsiCo,
Coca-Cola, Unilever and many other major CPGs. Folkman is also the driving force behind Gopuff's major consumer partnerships with companies such as Chase, Mastercard, Hyatt, Uber, Grubhub, PayPal, Venmo, and celebrities such as Chris Paul, Selena Gomez, and more.
ABOUT US:
Scott Silverman
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by CommX.
Michael LeBlanc 00:09
In this episode, we're diving into the fast-paced world of instant commerce with our guide Daniel Folkman SVP of Gopuff. With a career built on startups and startup culture, Daniel takes us through the brand's origin story and the roadmap to innovation ahead. Next, he shares with us what it takes to be a successful, high-profile and fast-scaling startup and what he looks for in the people he brings into the Team Drive continued success and new product development.
Veronika Sonsev 00:36
Well, welcome to Conversations with CommerceNext, Daniel. We actually had Gopuff co-CEO, Rafael Ilishayev joins us at the CommerceNext summit this past June. And we're thrilled to have you on the podcast today to give us an update on the business and offer some career advice to the entrepreneurial folks in the community. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Daniel Folkman 00:55
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Veronika Sonsev 00:57
I'm joined here with the producer and co-host of Conversations with CommerceNext Michael LeBlanc.
Michael LeBlanc 01:02
Hi, Daniel. Where are we finding you today?
Daniel Folkman 01:05
I am in sunny Miami, Florida.
Michael LeBlanc 01:08
Sweet. Nice. So you, (crossover talk), too?
Veronika Sonsev 01:10
I am in Miami Florida too. (Crossover talk),
Daniel Folkman 01:12
We could have done this together.
Michael LeBlanc 01:14
Well, I'm in, I'm not in, sunny anywhere. I'm in rainy Toronto. So, I'm very envious. But as Veronika said, thanks so much for joining us. Looking forward to it.
Daniel Folkman 01:22
Yeah, thanks again for having me. I'm excited.
Veronika Sonsev 01:26
Well, we're excited as well. I think Gopuff has had such an interesting journey recently. The company is the leader in the instant needs category, you deliver goods and alcohol to most consumers in under 30 minutes, which is amazing. And Gopuff has experienced some rapid growth during the pandemic, people were stuck at home they wanted, they wanted their stuff. And then the company has had to pull back recently as consumer behaviors adjusted to post-pandemic life. So, for those that maybe have not shopped Gopuff, can you explain what the company does? And what makes your value proposition different from companies like Instacart or DoorDash.
Daniel Folkman 02:03
So, it's great that your podcast is named CommerceNext, because we think what we're building is what the future of commerce looks like. You know, as you mentioned, it's been a wild and exciting journey for Gopuff. The company is almost 10 years old. You know, our founders started the business back in 2013 In Philadelphia. They were students at Drexel. And really, they were looking to find a way to make convenience more convenient. And I think while a lot of companies were focused on building these asset light marketplaces that would connect couriers and merchants. Are two founders who are first generation Americans grew up in their family businesses, you know, and only knew the idea of controlling the customer experience in generating profit on the business that they built. It took a similar approach to solving this convenience problem.
Daniel Folkman 02:23
And so, we built the business as this first party vertically integrated model versus these asset light marketplaces. And so, from day one, we've been buying inventory, we actually make our money on the inventory that we sell in our ads business, which we'll talk about. And we delivered everything from snacks, ice cream, and alcohol to baby, pet, beauty products, over the counter medication, things like that to customers in under 30 minutes, pretty much wherever they are, and whenever they need it. Today, we are operating roughly 500 micro fulfillment centers covering almost 1000 in a little over 1000 cities. Excuse me, in the US and the UK, you know, we've gone from this company that sold 100 convenience SKUs to over 4000 products across what we consider to be this instant needs category. So, a lot of growth over the past nine to 10 years.
Veronika Sonsev 03:39
Recently, a number of your competitors have gone out of business as people are out and about more. What do you think the long-term opportunity is for the instant needs category? You know, how does it scale beyond that core college student demographic that you originally targeted? And how do you see other types of retailers and brands trying this approach?
Daniel Folkman 04:01
Yeah, I think it's a great question. I mean, look, when we started the business, or when our founders started the business 10 years ago, there was no such thing as instant delivery, right? Like the most innovative thing in the early 20, 2010s was two-hour same day delivery, right. And the goods that we sell, were primarily procured by customers walking to this convenience store or, you know, the drugstore or something like that. I think the thesis of what we've been building is how do you make consumers' lives more convenient and put the goods that we sell, to be more accessible for customers, no matter where they are and what they're doing. That was something we've been building for 10 years and in the first three years of our business, we actually proved that this model worked without raising any sort of venture capital. It wasn't until you know about two or three years ago that anyone really started to compete in the space and there was a ton of attention that came to the category.
Daniel Folkman 04:35
Our belief has always been that high tide raises all boats, right. So, the more awareness of the category, the better it was for our business. And you see that with a market share that we've captured, you know, almost 70% in the US for instant commerce. I think that when we built the business, it was rooted in investing in infrastructure, investing in technology and investing in the people in the operational know-how, because what we do is very complex, right?
Daniel Folkman 04:54
This idea of managing inventory at the, at the local level, and having this hyperlocal logistics network that can put product in people's hands in under 30 minutes. It's simple in concept, but it's very hard to execute. And if you don't have the right infrastructure, again, we have 500 micro fulfillment centers, we have over 400 liquor licenses, if you don't have the right technology, we built the end-to-end technology stack to power this entire business. When we started, there was no instant commerce technology stack. And we brought in some of the best operators in the world from some of the most successful logistics companies to actually bring this to life. Without all of those pieces, it's very hard to bring this service to life for customers. And so, we've been doing it for a long time.
Daniel Folkman 05:29
I think the attention in the recent few years has been exacerbated by a lot of the venture capital dollars, and then the macro environment we were operating in at that time. But for customers, it was great because now a lot of customers realize you can get cleaning supplies and alcohol and baby products delivered in 20 or 30 minutes. And now it's on us to continue to show that this is the right experience that they should have to get those. So, when we think about (inaudible) forward, look, the pandemic, what accelerated it, was the penetration of the types of products that customers were buying for delivery, right, because people didn't feel comfortable going to the store any longer. You had to find other ways to get cleaning supplies and food and you know, ready to eat products and things like that alcohol delivered. And that's where we saw a lot of growth, which was of course top line benefit, but more so to like cross category pollinization of shoppers is really what we saw expand during the pandemic.
Daniel Folkman 07:34
Coming out of the pandemic, we're not seeing that customers want to go back to the store versus buying these products. What we're actually seeing, and it's slightly driven by this new macroeconomic environment is that customers are starting to, starting to shop more frequently and buy what they need when they need it, which goes back to the thesis we had 9-10 years ago, which was like the 150-$200 grocery trip a week was not sustainable for multiple reasons. Ones, it's super expensive. Two, you know, almost 50% of the goods that people buy at the grocery store gets thrown away. And so with this type of service at a time where customers are being more conscious on how they're spending money, buying what you need, when you need it is a much more advantageous approach for them to take. So, we think that that's the behavior that we're starting to see shift. But now they already know that they can get this variety of goods from one service in 30 minutes. And we think that's going to be a benefit long term.
Veronika Sonsev 08:04
Interesting. So, and it's impressive the technology that you've built out, I guess, I think where I was kind of thinking about is like, what are the use cases? So, it sounded like what you think the use case is, is like this more immediate like by like, some more immediate consumption, not like planning, but buying things as you kind of think about them and as you need them and as you want to kind of spend on them, so you don't have waste. And that would be more broadly applicable, then.
Daniel Folkman 08:28
Yeah, we think so. I mean, look, I think that the ability to get what you need, when you need it kind of removes the requirement to plan so much, right. And I think that this generation specifically has shown me that, you know, they're not always thinking further ahead. They're more thinking, what am I doing now? What do I need tomorrow? How am I (inaudible)? They may not even know where they're going to be next week, right? So, the idea of loading up on your pantry in your grocery stuff is just, it's not the same as previous generations. And so, we think then and that was my comment about the future of commerce, like we think we built a service that speaks to this generation and how they behave, and how they live their lives so that they can shop the way that they want and need to.
Michael LeBlanc 09:09
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with Daniel Folkman SVP of Business at Gopuff right after this important message.
Michael LeBlanc 09:18
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Veronika Sonsev 09:57
Daniel, you've been with Gopuff for six years. It's like almost from the beginning. Tell us about your role. You talked about the company, so now tell us about your role and your career journey. And what led you to join the company?
Daniel Folkman 10:09
Yeah, I've been very fortunate. The career trajectory that I've experienced, especially being at Gopuff. I've been with the company, almost six and a half years now. I was one of the, one of the first early employees, I was the first business hire. And when I joined, we had like a handful of corporate employees, we were in less than 10 cities. And my job initially was how do we get CPG brands to invest from a marketing standpoint in our platform, right. So, the early, early days of what our ads business is now, I've been really lucky over the past six and a half years, to kind of put, put wear almost every hat as is typical in many startups.
Daniel Folkman 10:25
You know, at one point, I oversaw our real estate team, I helped build our communications team, I ran the operation, actually, for a year and a half, which I like to joke was the best and worst year of my life, it stretched me mentally more than I've ever been. But I learned more about the business and running a P&L than I could have ever imagined. You know, I ran marketing twice, I was our founders’, first Chief of Staff. So, I really did get to experience a lot.
Daniel Folkman 10:31
Today, you know, my, my role, I serve as our SVP of Business overseeing all of our global business functions. So primarily, my focus is on our business development, which is all of our partnerships, our corporate development, which lives across fundraising, M&A, and our capital markets work. And then our ads business, which is this burgeoning high profit, you know, advertising business that we've been building, and investing pretty heavily in. So, you know, I've been like I said, incredibly fortunate for the ride.
Daniel Folkman 10:52
I think the question you asked first was, why. what inspired me to join Gopuff. I mean, you know, I met our founders, at the time, they were 22, I was 25. And they had a huge vision. And that vision was to change the way that consumers were getting the goods that they wanted. And again, this is back in 2015-2016, where the likes of all of these third-party marketplaces were just getting started. And so, this idea of being able to build a network of fulfillment centers with only inventory, drive profit from the orders that you're delivering, and let people get what they need, wherever they are, was highly compelling. I felt their vision was huge, I thought the opportunity was huge. And at the time, we were just focused on convenience, which was a $250 billion industry in the US. Now when we look across this instant commerce space, and what we sell, you're talking about, you know, a market that has a a begins with a T and not a B, right, in terms of the trillions of opportunities on a global scale. So, I'm more excited today than I was even on day one. But that was really what drove me to join the company at the time.
Michael LeBlanc 12:45
Well, what a fascinating career journey, I want to, I want to touch on a couple of things, I really want to get back to this whole ad platform, because I didn't appreciate the holistic nature of the business. Now, one of the reasons I didn't appreciate it, I'm in Canada. I don't think you operate here. So, I don't have a chance to get hands-on experience of your business. So, just for a moment, and you know, we got some listeners internationally. How many cities are you in in the US and just unpack that, that little bit of your physical presence for me because you mentioned your holistic perspective, and you mentioned global? So tell, talk a little bit about that.
Daniel Folkman 13:15
In the US, we, we are in, you know, just around 1000 cities, we cover about 3% of the population with the top 100 DMAs. Included in that. So, all of the major and highly dense metros, we started the business very much focused on college. So, we do have coverage over the majority of major colleges across the United States, as well as a number of suburban areas, we operate as well. And we also have you know, we operate in the UK, as I mentioned. So, about you know, 85% of London covered and about 50% of the UK covered as well.
Michael LeBlanc 13:51
So, that, that kind of trip density really drives, trip density in university towns, college towns really drives it, okay, I get it. And now under your leadership, you've been cutting a whole lot of great super interesting deals partnering with Grubhub to fill grocery, alcohol, you (inaudible) a new ad platform, we'll talk about that a bit more. Partnership, launching new products, MrBeast, Emma Chamberlain, NBA star Chris Paul. I don't know how you sleep. But anyway, let's talk about all these partnerships and how they fit into the overall strategy of Gopuff.
Daniel Folkman 14:21
Well, the way that I sleep is I have a great team. So, we're really lucky on that front. But yeah, I mean, look, I think you can kind of tell as you look at the partnerships that we've done, that we look at ourselves as, as really a platform, right, this like a commerce platform of the future. And because of the infrastructure that we've built and the technology that we've developed, that's what we think we bring to the table that's unparalleled on a global scale, in the sense of being able to enable other brands to tap into this ability to put product in people's hands, right. And so, we'll talk about the ad business in a second,
Michael LeBlanc 14:56
Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Folkman 14:58
Which is a huge, a huge reason for the infrastructure, why that adds business works the way that it does. But when you look at some of our partnerships, you know, celebrities, creators, influencers have gone, undergone this massive shift from endorser to owner. And that's been over the last call in five or so years, as they do that the CPG space has been ripe for you know, disruption in terms of these up and coming brands, we saw it over the last decade with direct to consumer brands, you know, exploding, the KIND bars of the world, you know, like companies like that. And celebrities have now gotten involved, or creators have gotten involved and started to bring their own products to market.
Daniel Folkman 15:25
And when you look at the Gopuff platform, we don't think there's a better platform to launch these products, right, whether it's, you know, Selena Gomez and her relationship with Serendipity that we got involved with, to your point, we, we from the beginning to the end, built this plant-based snack line with Chris Paul, you know, day in and day out over the last year and a half to bring that to market, MrBeast and Emma Chamberlain lau-, launching their products on our platform. It doesn't really matter who the individual is, and what the product is. We have these playbooks that we can execute on, and we have the distribution, the immediate distribution that, that their fans want.
Daniel Folkman 15:57
So, this idea of posting on social media to promote some random company, we think has kind of gone away, or it's relatively inefficient. The idea of giving their fans this call to action of I own this product, or I launched this product, you can buy it right now on Gopuff, we've seen, you know, really, really impactful results, you know, with our partners, and there's a lot more coming down the pipeline, in terms of the celebrity space.
Daniel Folkman 16:40
And, and then further like, we've started to think about how we help brands, you know, enable commerce solutions where those customers are already spending their time, right. And so, we have partnerships with Uber Eats, and Grubhub, where we have Gopuff storefronts that sit on their platforms. But when consumers place that order that orders routed to our back-end systems, it's picked and packed in our warehouses or fulfillment centers. And then we do the delivery in, in ourselves, right. So, this idea of meeting consumers where they are is another area that, that we're definitely investing in.
Michael LeBlanc 17:04
Super interesting. So, okay, let's double click on this ad platform, I mean, the words, if I had a dime for every time, I've heard of a retail media network or something connected to that I could probably invest in your company. But it's certainly popular now you've, what, what's your solution? And I'm starting to get a sense of your scale and your impact and your reach. But unpack that for us a little bit wh-, what, what brands have been successful? Are you looking to move money away from the conventional platforms and in, and into your platform? Just talk about the, the business model and talk about your success?
Daniel Folkman 17:38
Yeah, look, I think the digital advertising space is fascinating right now. I think that what we've seen is that it's no secret that retail media is kind of at the forefront of digital advertising. Especially as there's been an increase in adoption for delivery of food, right and CPG goods. I think that's paired with some of the privacy challenges that the large social media platforms are dealing with today,
Michael LeBlanc 17:43
Sure.
Daniel Folkman 17:44
Where a lot of those social media platforms, by the way, are investing in like ancillary businesses, versus just the core. And so that's another dynamic that's at play. And then I think you have this, you know, pending macroeconomic backdrop that is driving advertisers to be much more thoughtful with the dollars that they're deploying, in terms of how do I maximize my return? And how do I tribute every dollar that I spent. And so the, like, perfect storm of we need, a new solution is where I think Gopuff fits in really nicely. And I say this all the time, like, we're not going to be the best ads business because our search product is better than someone else's, or our promoted placement is better. We need those, those capabilities to be on par at minimum with you know, the other options in the space,
Michael LeBlanc 18:48
They're table stakes for you basically.
Daniel Folkman 18:50
They're table stakes totally. But the reason that Gopuff has the ability we think to be at the forefront of retail media is because of one, our infrastructure and our ability to put product in people's hands the way that we do as efficiently as we do it. Two, the fact that we own the inventory. So, we have full visibility into the products that people are trying to buy. And three, the uniqueness of the data and the richness of the data that we have to power the entire engine, right. And so the combination of those things are really what we've built this ads business around. You know, when it comes to the suite of capabilities, we have the promoted placement on the app, we have promoted search we've, we've got sponsored carousels and display ads. We also have programmatic off platform offerings that will drive to, to our core platform.
Daniel Folkman 19:19
One of the things that I think is really unique from a capability standpoint is our product sampling. Because of the ownership of the inventory and the uniqueness of the data. We're able to hyper-target consumers in real time and put products in their basket based on who they are, where they are, what they like, what they don't like. We're able to make sure that the sample is being distributed, are going to the people they should. And that brands who are engaging in the sampling programs give back a rich set of data to understand who are the right consumers to engage with their product and better inform their ad programs, whether on our platform or otherwise.
Daniel Folkman 19:41
So, everything we do is rooted in, you know, this idea of immediate consumption, and then the richness of the data that we have, and, and I'll be honest with you, like, it's early innings for us on this ads business, we're not saying we've got it all figured out just yet. But we feel really encouraged about some of the results that we're seeing and the feedback we're getting, you know, this early on.
Veronika Sonsev 20:34
It's been interesting, you've had some, you've had some interesting launches through the collaborations you do with celebrities, you've have the retail media market, you've also been going into the private label business,
Daniel Folkman 20:44
Yeah, well look, it's no secret that private labels, you know, is something that many retailers invest in. So, in that sense, you know, we, we've taken the playbook from many who have come before us, we, we have done it a bit differently. And our objectives in private labels are pretty simple, right?
Daniel Folkman 20:56
The first is, and this is commonly shared in the retail space. But the first is around margin improvement. So, these are products that are getting you anywhere from you know, two to 3000 basis point improvements on, on the categories that you, that you enter. But there's also a brand component that we think is compelling for us. And we've felt and we've seen this be really successful with our celebrity and creator brands. But this idea of exclusively available on Gopuff, you know has been a differentiator for us with, with any other option, not just in the delivery space, right.
Daniel Folkman 21:18
But I think Trader Joe's, by the way, did this really well, where their private label business was one of the main reasons that people started shopping there and obviously a great offering beyond that. And so we've kind of taken a page out of their playbook. And basically, you know, also our name Gopuff is inherently disruptive. And we have a creative brand that sits, that sits very differently from, from everyone else in the space. So, to kind of take advantage of the, the space, that space to play in and, and create brands that not only give us margin benefit, but that are fun and engaging for consumers and exclusively available on Gopuff. So, that's a little bit of the rationale.
Daniel Folkman 21:28
We've seen a ton of success with Basically, it's our basics and essentials line, as you mentioned, you know, our Basically Water which I'm actually drinking right now, you know has become our top selling water SKU on the platform. We've seen our Basically line contribute more than 40% of the paper goods sales on the platform as well. So, really, really good early penetration.
Daniel Folkman 21:53
Our Good Now brand is our newest brand. And this was launched as more of an over-the-counter brand. And part of this goes with the evolution of our customer base, right. Like when we started the business it was very focused on college. Today, you know, less than a quarter of the business is college kids. And so, things like cleaning supplies and household essentials, and over the counter medication are much more prevalent in our shoppers lives today. In fact, like, our average age is closer to 30. And one of our fastest growing segments are young parents, and so starting to bring products to market that these customers want. These are also lower margin, you know, branded products and so an opportunity for us to pick up some margin there.
Daniel Folkman 22;55
The only other brand that I would mention that we haven't talked about because we spoke about the Good Eat'n, plant-based snack line with Chris Paul that we launched is our Mean Tomato pizza for our brand. So, we have our own Gopuff kitchens. You know, we brought to market our own branded pizza, which if you haven't tried it, I would highly recommend you try it. I think we have the best Cauliflower Crust Pizza that I've ever had, you know, but we've had a lot of fun with that brand Brash, it's edgy, you know, and it's ours. And I think that, that it is exclusively available on the Gopuff component it's something we'll continue to continue to lean into.
Michael LeBlanc 23:45
It's such a fascinating business. I mean, I'm glad we have three or four hours to talk to you about it because I have so many questions. Kidding, (crossover talk),
Daniel Folkman 23:53
I'm going to have to clear my calendar here.
Michael LeBlanc 23:55
Yeah, listen. All right let's change gears a little bit. Let's talk about career lessons. You know, looking at your career, you are a startup leader, you've been in startups, you describe what I don't know how many positions you had at Gopuff alone. That kind of mentality is DNA. Talk about what you, what you learned, and, and you know, if you've made missteps that you then corrected or just advice for people, you know, you often hear there's startup people, and then there's people who don't fit in startup cultures. Talk about that a little bit and what you've learned and, and your perspective on that.
Daniel Folkman 24:27
Yeah, well I definitely made plenty of mistakes, over, over my career. Look, I started my career, I was 19. I was in college, I tried to solve credit card fraud. So, I like came up with this, this company and won some pitch competitions and ultimately failed miserably in my career before Gopuff it was like early-stage companies that were like moderately more successful than the previous, right. And when I joined Gopuff, it was kind of in that same trajectory. I've been fortunate that Gopuff hit this ramp that very few companies get to go through, and it's been one of the fastest growing companies, not only in our segment, but across tech, and that's challenged me to keep up, right? I think that one of the things that you see at hyper-growth companies is that it's hard for someone to continue to stay on the trajectory of the company, right? So, there's, you either keep pace with the company or you don't. And unfortunately, if you don't, you end up leaving or being replaced. And for me, that was just never an option. Like I loved what we were doing. And I joined so early that it felt like you know, my own. And so I made a commitment to myself at a young age that I was going to try to grow as fast or faster than the company so that I could stay in my seat or at least as it evolved.
Daniel Folkman 25:24
And I think a couple of the lessons that I learned along that way, were one, there's this, like, great article, I think, First Round Capital, put it out, called 'let go of your Legos' or 'letting go of your Legos' or something like that. And I think that was one of the biggest lessons, I've learned that like growth is not scope, right. And you have to be comfortable giving things up and handing them off to people who either are better suited to do it, or who have more capacity, because the alternative is you hang on and you and you build a fiefdom, but you do nothing well. And I've learned over time, and I was not good at this in the beginning of my career, but I learned over time that doing less better was going to be more beneficial for both me and the company. And if the company was benefiting from my work, then my growth would benefit as well. And so that was, you know, a little bit of humble pie, I think you have to eat in the beginning. And you've got to make a lot of mistakes first to get there. But I was fortunate to be able to learn that lesson along the way.
Daniel Folkman 26:40
I think one of the other lessons I learned, and this is more on the people management side. I don't know if you guys have read the book, Trillion Dollar Coach, but it's about Bill Campbell, who was like the most infamous mentor and coach in Silicon Valley, who recently passed away. But one of the things that I picked up when I read that, and I've put into practice is like being more comfortable connecting with the people who work for you. I think when I was a young executive, I had this perception that they co-, that no one who worked for me can know what went on in my personal life, right that I had to be all business all the time. And any sort of like, a personal opening up personally, it was going to be a weakness for me. I realized, and honestly, it was the exact opposite, that the second I got comfortable sharing and connecting with the people who work for me on a personal level, they did the same, and our relationship got much stronger. And the ability to manage them got easier because we had a connection, right.
Daniel Folkman 27:30
And I've taken that same practice to connecting with people who work next to me with you know, I mean, our founders and I have built a very close relationship, but even with them, and then partners and investors and bankers, and anyone who's on the opposite side of the table, that personal connection, I think too many people are afraid to make it because they're afraid that it's not professional enough, or at least I was, and I learned it was the exact opposite. And so that was probably the biggest unlock for, for my growth was, was that personal connection with folks who worked for me,
Michael LeBlanc 28:02
It's such an interesting point. Because in fast moving businesses like yours, sometimes you move people around, and sometimes people don't fit. And I guess the concern also is the, if you're not compartmentalizing, you know, you're, you. you're working with friends, and then you've got to say goodbye at some point, and things don't always work out. But you've been able to manage that it sounds the upside versus any of that kind of cross pollinization in the business, right?
Daniel Folkman 28:21
Well look, I think and, and you're totally right. But I think what you learn is you can compartmentalize, and you can also be human, right? Like those two things can co-exist. And I think a lot of people get that wrong. And I think when you get it right, it's actually pretty magical what you can accomplish. And if you mix in some like, radical candor, I think you have a good recipe for management.
Michael LeBlanc 28:44
Well, Gopuff has been through not unlike many fast-moving high-growth, hyper-growth, lots of different go-to-market business strategy changes. And, you know, it's very typical, you're very successful at pivoting. So, talk about the kind of people that excel and the kind of people that you look for. What does a successful hire look like? We've had guests talk about, they look for, you know, they look for, you know, enthusiasm, sometimes more than technical skills and like, what do you look for when you're hiring people for your organization?
Daniel Folkman 29:14
So, as you can imagine, being young and going through this experience, I've had to develop certain things, certain qualities that I bet on. And look, I think when you get to a certain level, the like, you know, the bullshit meter gets harder, right? Because everybody is more senior and more talented and better, more well-spoken. And a lot of people are able to kind of navigate things you know, in an interview that may, they may not be able to navigate in, in day-to-day and so it's hard, right? I think no matter how good you get at hiring, you're going to get a lot wrong, right? And I think they say that if you're batting 500, when it comes to hiring, you're doing a damn good job. I'd argue for batting 300, you're doing a damn good job, but ma-, major league if you're at 300 you're, (crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 30:23
Major league, right?
Daniel Folkman 30:25
That's right they are Hall of Fame numbers. The, the, the things that I think about are you know, a lot of people talk about EQ and IQ. I think EQ is super important. The third thing that I've always thought about is what I call AQ, like adaptability quotient. And so, when I actually interview, I'm looking at it backwards, right? I'm saying AQ is the most important, EQ is damn near second, and IQ. I mean, look, it's table stakes, right? You're, you're playing, you're playing in the big leagues, but without the emotional intelligence. And without that adaptability, I think you're missing key components of what a great employee is, at any company, right? Not just in startup land, but at any company. And so I really have found ways to dig in on those two factors the most.
Daniel Folkman 30:47
The only other thing that I would say is, like an intellectual curiosity. I think personally, for me, like, I don't want to spend time with people outside of work that aren't intellectually curious, right? (Crossover talk),
Michael LeBlanc 30:55
Why would you hire them, right?
Daniel Folkman 30:58
So, why would I hire people who don't bring intellectual curiosity to the table in the workplace? I think I've seen people with such, with so much less experience, and, and skill be successful based on the fact that they're highly curious. And they're very adaptable. And they're willing to kind of take on these challenges and a little bit of his bias, because I think I'm not great at anything. But I think those are areas that I've worked on personally. And so maybe that's what I brought to the table. But I've seen that those are the two areas I really spend the time looking at when I'm interviewing people, and I think that makes people successful.
Michael LeBlanc 31:28
Well, you're great at interviews, because it's fascinating, articulation of both your background and your strategy. So, on behalf of Veronika and on behalf of Veronika's doggo, who joined us on the podcast today. Thanks so much for joining us and giving us a peek into the fast-moving world of Gopuff, the instant needs category. It was really wonderful to have you on Conversations with CommerceNext today.
Daniel Folkman 31:51
Well, thanks for having me, guys. It was a pleasure speaking with you as well, and I'm looking forward to the next one.
Michael LeBlanc 31:57
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform, where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events. We harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com.
Have a fantastic week everyone.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, people, company, Gopuff, brand, built, platform, products, goods, started, fulfillment centers, commerce, consumers, customers, investing, career, pandemic, join, instant, ads