In this episode we pick up a fantastic fireside chat from CommerceNext IRL at the end of September in New York. After an introduction by CommerceNext co-founder Scott Silverman, Miki Racine Berardelli, Principal at miki b talks with Adam Michaels , CDO and Heidi Cooley, CMO from Crocs. Together they explore how marketing and ecommerce often operate with different playbooks — marketing focusing on brand and storytelling and ecommerce immersed in performance marketing. In this session, we'll hear how the marketing and digital chiefs at Crocs are operating from the same playbook and generating amazing results. Crocs reported that digital represented more than a third of global Q2 2021 revenue after growing 25% during the quarter.
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Wunderkind.
In this episode we pick up a fantastic fireside chat from CommerceNext IRL at the end of September in New York. After an introduction by CommerceNext co-founder Scott Silverman, Miki Racine Berardelli, Principal at miki b talks with Adam Michaels , CDO and Heidi Cooley, CMO from Crocs.
Together they explore how marketing and ecommerce often operate with different playbooks — marketing focusing on brand and storytelling and ecommerce immersed in performance marketing. In this session, we'll hear how the marketing and digital chiefs at Crocs are operating from the same playbook and generating amazing results. Crocs reported that digital represented more than a third of global Q2 2021 revenue after growing 25% during the quarter.
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we’ll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com
Have a fantastic week everyone!
ABOUT US:
Scott Silverman
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
About CommerceNext
CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at https://commercenext.com/commercenext-webinars/.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Wunderkind.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
In this episode we pick up a fantastic fireside chat from CommerceNext IRL at the end of September in New York City. After an introduction by CommerceNext, co-founder and my co-host Scott Silverman, Miki Racine Berardelli, Principal at miki b, talks with Adam Michaels, Chief Digital Officer and Heidi Cooley, Chief Marketing Officer from Crocs.
Michael LeBlanc 00:31
Together they explore how marketing and ecommerce often operate with different playbooks — marketing focusing on brand and storytelling and ecommerce immersed in performance marketing. In this session, we'll hear how the marketing and digital chiefs at Crocs are operating from the same playbook and generating amazing results. Crocs reported that digital represented more than a third of global Q2 2021 revenue after growing 25% during the quarter.
Adam Michaels 00:55
We've spent the last several years building our team building a best-in-class infrastructure with world class tools and partners that allow us to drive insights in both brand and performance marketing and it allows us to move faster, make better decisions, real time data, it's accessible, but both of our teams.
Michael LeBlanc 01:13
Let's listen in now.
Scott Silverman 01:14
Here, we're sitting down with the CMO and the Chief Digital Officer from Crocs. So, Adam Michaels is the Chief Digital Officer Heidi Cooley is the CMO and to say that Crocs has been killing it in ecommerce lately is an understatement. They reported that digital represented a third of global Q2 2021 revenue, and it grew 25% during that quarter and then a couple of weeks ago, they announced this very ambitious plan to hit $5 billion in revenue by 2026. And you can see the dynamic between the CEO and the CMO and how they are really collaborating for this seamless customer experience and the growth that they've been driving in the organization. My friend, Miki Berardelli, she is going to be interviewing them. She's been the CMO. She's been a CTO at companies like Tory Burch, Ralph Lauren, Chico's. Just like Billy was interviewing that panel, she's walked in their shoes as well.
Miki Racine Berardelli 02:23
Thank you, Scott, for that warm introduction. I'm very excited to be here today with Heidi and Adam from products. As you know, they're experiencing explosive growth, and I'm just gonna dive right in. Heidi and Adam, as you know, many retailers are wrestling with organizational structure and keeping up with the ever changing digital landscape. Can you, I was hoping you could share a little bit about how your respective departments are set up in terms of ownership. We all know that there are concentric circles that must overlap. So, if you could touch on the areas that require lockstep collaboration between your teams as well.
Adam Michaels 03:02
Absolutely. Well, first, thank you for having us and, yeah, great question. I think, you know, maybe from a digital perspective first, I think there are probably two things about our organizational structure that are a bit unique to Crocs, especially when compared to our peer set. First is that our digital team is actually a global digital organization and really, for us what that means is our global digital teams around the world all report into one digital structure. So, our regional teams, our local market, teams don't report into a geography GM or general manager, they actually report directly into digital. Now we work very closely with the GM since a great relationship. But it's a direct organizational structure.
Adam Michaels 03:42
Then the second piece, and probably one that is more important, and a bigger driver of our success has been how we define the scope of responsibility within digital. So, for us digital means ownership of Crocs, calm, which are owned and operated websites around the world are wholesale e-tail partners and pure play e-tailers like Amazon and Zappos, as well as third party marketplaces and so all three of those channels sit within digital. I think a lot of other organizations, traditionally, you'll find the wholesale e-tailors sit within the traditional brick and mortar wholesale channel. And, so we've spent the last several years pulling that out into digital and for us, it's allowed us I think, to be less channel-driven, and much more consumer focused and consumer-driven. Those are probably two of the big deltas and changes we've made.
Adam Michaels 04:31
And, then to your other question around concentric circles here, there's a lot of areas of overlap, and it's hard to pick one. But if I had to, I probably say, where our partnership really shines and comes to life is to collaborations like we do with artists and other brands and whether that means working together to define the technology behind virtual waiting rooms, online drawings, how we scope out the onset experience, timing and strategy. I think that's a great example where our two teams were Very closely together to bring those to life.
Heidi Cooley 05:02
Yeah, I'm jumping to add that I think what makes Crocs unique, especially from a digital first perspective is that we are consumer driven. We are not challenge driven, as Adam just mentioned, right, so we each have our respective KPIs, but we are both digitally like, and on the brand side, we look at that as taking a social first approach. So, our team is really focused on driving brand relevance and consideration, right acquiring new customers to join, not just transact with the brand, and Adams team runs a very sophisticated performance model as they continue to drive retention with these key consumers.
Heidi Cooley 05:39
I'd say one other unique way of our ways of working is that we're really, really agile we call imaginative agility, our competitive advantage, Crocs. So, we're really comfortable moving quickly, which often means that everyone's involved so we create small nimble pods between our two teams to really empower the team to make decisions really quickly.
Miki Racine Berardelli 05:59
That's great and then I imagine some of those, you know, ideas that come from the marketing department, the digital department is like, can we execute it, can't we execute it.
Heidi Cooley 06:14
We say yes to both.
Adam Michaels 06:14
Yeah. (Inaudible) conversation (Inaudible).
Miki Racine Berardelli 06:14
Yeah. The push and pull of that, you know, that healthy tension, I say, between that marketing and digital focus. So, my takeaway from, from that is that the digital department is handling the etailers and the, and the marketplaces, among others, that Adam mentioned, and I would, I would assume that that means that the reason for that is because those destinations for the customer require a lot of technical proficiency, right.
Miki Racine Berardelli 06:45
And, from what Heidi said, I would, I believe you are walking the walk of this buzzword of being customer centric, as well, as you know, talking the talk, and I think a lot of organizations are trying to figure that out as well. So, moving on to the next question. Crocs has done an amazing job at seeping into the Zeitgeist, if you will, not just here in the US, but around the world. Can you describe the go to market approach that has achieved that success? I think a lot of brands are grappling with how to scale internationally. Having run global ecommerce and marketing myself, I know there are nuances that exist by country and region, and geographic location. So, how do you, at Crocs, handle the global brand identity both digitally and market wise? And, Heidi, maybe, because this is, you know, I'm asking it as a marketer, to marketer, we'll start with Heidi.
Heidi Cooley 07:48
Fantastic. Well, one, thank you for the incredible compliment, right? Like every brand wants to be part of the Zeitgeist of culture and I think, for us at Crocs, again, that starts with our consumer centric approach, we intentionally cultivate a very passionate group of consumers, they've so lovingly named themselves Croc nation, so we fondly refer to them as Croc nation and look, we authentically invite them every day to come as they are.
Heidi Cooley 08:12
So, our brand vision that Crocs is that everyone should be comfortable in their own shoes and that is relevant around the world from Colorado to Shanghai, right, our DNA is grounded in comfort, and self-expression and inclusivity. And, those are shared interests, both between our brand and more importantly, with our fans. I would say from a global regional perspective, we do believe that we are globally consistent as a brand. That being said, we definitely encourage local adaptation, we want to make sure that we're building authentic trust and engagement with fans in these key markets around the world.
Heidi Cooley 08:48
What I'd also reiterate is that although there is local nuance, the essence of our, of our strategy is that we create a two-way dialogue. So, it's not a push strategy. We don't tell everyone what they should think about Crocs and how they should wear them. Instead, we really go beyond the confines of product and we create meaningful connections with fans. And, that's grounded in this, kind of, active social listening is what we call it.
Heidi Cooley 09:12
And from a Crocs perspective, we actually do it in a way that a lot of great brands don't, because we not only listen, we actually respond. And there's a lot of examples that have come to life around the world. So, I'll give you one that we love here in the US, which is back in 2019, a young boy named Collin created a change.org go with me here for a second change.org petition for Crocs to make adult size Lightning McQueen classics and, so we actively engaged with Colin, and we ended up bringing to market after 30,000 signatures on a changed position, position, adult size like immigrant Crocs. And, we've had fans now that have slid into our dams over 1000 times to try to get a pair of these beloved classics. And so it's about listening It's about responding. And that comes to life here in the US with adult size Lightning McQueen Crocs. It's come to life in Korea with a Nongshim, a noodle brand collaboration, it's actually how our first collaboration in the history of Crocs started with Post Malone.
Miki Racine Berardelli 10:14
That's fascinating. I mean, that's really engaging a community and also creating the sort of scarcity model, right? Like this is special, you have to get it while you can. Adam, I know you have some really interesting things to share with the audience about the international nature and, and the domestic brand ownership.
Adam Michaels 10:35
Yeah, so there's probably two things from my perspective that you can really stand out here and one is related to our organizational structure and the operating model associated with it. So, as I mentioned, while we have a centralized organizational structure, one of the things that we really implore is decentralized decision making and what we mean by that is we really want to empower our local teams to help drive those regional roadmaps, those teams are closest to our consumer, right, our team in Japan is closer to our Japanese consumer than we'll ever be here in Colorado. So we really want to empower those teams to help us understand which digital payments we should be pursuing, which marketplaces we should go after, which social platforms are the most relevant for their consumer and so we really want our local teams to help guide and drive our roadmap for us.
Adam Michaels 11:19
And, the second thing related to that is what I think is our really diversified digital ecosystem that's really grown over the years from what was a very channel driven strategy with, honestly a narrow focus on Crocs, calm to a much more consumer centric strategy that has now a wide variety of digital and physical touch points and I think just you know, the last couple years alone, we've added over a dozen marketplaces around the world, whether that's Rakuten in Japan, wild berries in Russia, Flipkart in India, Zalando in Europe, so a wide variety of marketplaces, we've also expanded our presence on globally, and so locally relevant social channels. So, you know, TikTok, here in the US, WeChat, in China, LINE in Japan. And so much of that actually came from our local teams and those investments have really allowed us to connect with certainly a much broader segment of our consumer base. But I think more importantly, on the platforms that are locally relevant to them and that's been a real key to our success, both around the world, and certainly here in the US as well.
Miki Racine Berardelli 12:22
That's great. Thank you so much, both of you. So, from Heidi, to summarize it through my mind, there are nuances among these from a brand perspective and a consumer perception and what works in different countries and what may or may not apply. And this idea of tapping into those opportunities by region, to create exciting moments for the brands as the one that you described with the very special product.
Miki Racine Berardelli 12:49
And from Adam, I heard that there is corporate governance, but empowered teams in each region, in each country or location, that understands that consumer, and not only that consumer from a brand perception, but it sounds to me like a consumer in terms of how they consume, leverage and utilize all things digital. So, is there anything that I sort of missed from a highlight perspective on that question?
Adam Michaels 13:20
No, I think you really recapped it exceedingly well. And, it is, I think, again, just to reiterate, the local teams are such a critical part of our strategy, because to your point, they're their consumers as well, right in these local markets, so they know those nuances more than we ever can and so we really have to trust those teams to guide us.
Miki Racine Berardelli 13:39
That's great. Yeah, I remember, you know, being at Ralph Lauren and Tory Burch and dealing with that international, you know, when it's such an American brand, but understanding that you have to let go of some things that wouldn't necessarily let go of. And, you know, for a while there, I felt like I was lassoing you know, the rest of the world and kind of, you know, saying no, this is the way we do it. And, you know, it became very evident that the, the empowerment eye region, both in terms of digital strategy and brand strategy must be trusted by that, you know, that must be trusted by that region by the corporate team within that region. So, thank you for that.
Miki Racine Berardelli 14:17
I think a lot of the brands in the audience will get a lot out of that because just like organizational structure between marketing and digital, global expansion and control, governance is the word you used, data is of paramount importance right now. So how do you add a new shared ownership and collaboration between your departments and teams, but we all know marketing and digital tend to view the world differently at times, marketing is often viewed as the art I call it. side with branding and storytelling, while digital is more of the science of measurement and definitely performance, but performance is equally important to both Marketing and digital, ultimately, because of all ships rise, everyone wins, right. So how do you successfully blend the art versus science conundrum, I like to call it, and is there anything about your secret sauce that you can share with our audience?
Heidi Cooley 15:16
Yeah, great question. So, to your point, I'd start with the fact that we both have mutual admiration for the art and the science, right, we definitely respect and appreciate each other's impact on the brand overall, and most importantly, the consumer experience with our brand. So again, we're digitally led social first and we are grounded in a consumer centric approach. So, between our two teams, we're actually all working towards the same goal and so we really spend our time making sure that there's clearly defined roles and intense between each of our teams for a variety of initiatives, but we're also quick to share insights and I think that's one of our competitive advantages here at Crocs.
Heidi Cooley 15:51
So, I'll give you an example. On the brand side of things, quote, unquote, art side of things, we were the first brand to market with TikToks, new augmented reality, experience and experience where fans could try on plastic clubs and slides and pair them with their exhibits, in key markets all over the world. Within a week, we drove 8 billion global impressions on the platform. It was incredible, like, really high engagement, really great experience with fans, which was incredible. I think what's been more exciting is that within two weeks of that insight, Adam and his team have taken it and started to implement a roadmap for augmented reality in our own branded app. So we are quickly sharing insights and best practices between our two teams and Adam can probably speak more about what that looks like on the commerce side.
Adam Michaels 16:40
Great. I'll reiterate what Heidi said. I think, you know, key to all of this is a mutual understanding of the role that each of these players, brand marketing, performance marketing. Yes, we may have different objectives, right, there are different outcomes we're trying to drive, but our teams are very clear on what those are and how we measure them and importantly, how that funnel works together, right, because one of these doesn't work without the other, right. Brand without performance, performance without brand does not lead to the ideal outcomes. And so I think it really does start there and obviously, a mutual respect for the expertise that each team brings and the value that each team adds.
Adam Michaels 17:16
And, I'll probably reiterate what Heidi said around data. We've spent the last several years building our team, building a best in class infrastructure with world class tools and partners that allow us to drive insights in both brand and performance marketing and it allows us to move faster, make better decisions, with real time data, it's successful. But both of our teams and that collaboration, that data are surely critical to our success now, and without question will be critical for our success in the future. Not just today, but identifying as Heidi mentioned, new opportunities, like virtual augmented reality, to really chart our course for the future.
Michael LeBlanc 17:53
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back to our interview with Adam Michaels, CTO and Heidi Cooley, CMO from Crocs. right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 18:09
Wunderkind is a leading performance marketing engine that delivers tailored experiences at scale. Digital businesses use Wunderkind to remember who users are better than ever before, allowing them to deliver high-performing one-to-one messages on websites, through emails and texts, and in ads at a scale that's not otherwise possible. Wunderkind drives $1.2 billion annually in directly attributable revenue for top e-commerce brands like Uniqlo, Sonos, and HelloFresh, often ranking as a top-three revenue channel in their own analytics, learn more at wunderkind.co, that's wunderkind.co
Miki Racine Berardelli 18:46
I can't wait to see what you guys do. There's this curiosity by any marketer, right, so we've come up with this idea to build the brand and create enthusiasm and community and build on that. But marketers always want to know, did it work, how did it go, did it work, right. So, that, that information needs to come from the digital team, and, and since Adam oversees performance, ultimately that, that conversation takes place, it reminds me for those who are in apparel or accessories or footwear, certainly, that healthy tension between Design and Merchandising, right, so we designed it, we chose the merchants chose to sell it and design needs to know if it worked and then how does that you know, how does that inform what we do next. So, I thought that was a very interesting comment because I think it applies to many other departments that really need to collaborate in this industry.
Miki Racine Berardelli 19:40
So, let's shift to challen-, channel balance, and CX or customer experience as Crocs and brand-in-retail. As Crocs is a brand-in-retail ecosystem. As Adam mentioned earlier, it's comprised of brick-and-mortar stores, digital commerce, which includes both datas and vertical, wholesale, both physical and digital as well as the online marketplaces that Adam mentioned. So, what can you share about the Croc strategy on channel balance and channel balance versus customer centricity balanced approach to the execution and vision of this strategy? So, I'd love to start with Heidi on this one should talk about the customer. The customer experience aspect of it, because I'm tying it back to walking the walk of true customer centricity and what that means from a brand perspective in terms of channel balance and then, of course, Adam.
Heidi Cooley 20:42
Of course, so, I'll start so I think, most importantly, we, we focus our efforts on meeting the consumer where they are spending their time. So, we do that by starting digital first, obviously, as Adam will definitely take you guys through more and more detail. But really, at the end of the, the end of the day, at the heart of our brand, we want to create memorable experiences for fans wherever they may interact with Crocs. So yes, it starts from a digital first perspective, but comes to life through physical locations as well. That can be our retail stores, our partner stores, also looks like pop ups in Shanghai and, you know, music festivals potentially with Posty Fest. So, we really do, we break down kind of channel agnostics as well, to say, where are fans spending their time and let's make sure the brand shows up there.
Adam Michaels 21:27
It's a great question and honestly, it's one that we've spent hours, days, probably months.
Miki Racine Berardelli 21:33
And it probably cha-, the answers change, right, as rapidly as the landscape changes.
Adam Michaels 21:39
It does and I think one thing that we've realized or come to realize is that there's no one answer to that question, right, there just isn't a single answer that's right. For every brand, each brand needs to decide what is right for them and for us, and one of our greatest strengths is that we are a democratic brand, right, our consumer base is incredibly democratic and so we believe our distribution should reflect that, right. Our customers don't shop in any one of these channels, right, crocs.com, wholesale, etail marketplaces alone.
Adam Michaels 22:08
And, we have come to the conclusion that each one plays a unique role in the customer journey, whether it's product discovery, research purchase. And, for us, we look more broadly, I think a lot of other brands do. And, I think, for us, crocs.com will continue to be the best representation of our brand, right? It's where you'll find the broadest assortment, the most exclusive products like collaborations and great brand content.
Adam Michaels 22:33
And for us, etailers and marketplaces often offer a value proposition we don't or can't, economically, right, so, right, what I want to show up there, and ultimately create, as Heidi mentioned, compelling consumer experiences that are as brand centric as possible. And I think, you know, finally, first off, the week to be where our consumer is. But we do need to be strategic about with whom we partner, and really mindful and thoughtful about product assortment and segmentation strategy across those different platforms, but, for us, we think all three, including our retail stores, play a critical role in our success in the next five years, and will continue to invest in consumer experiences across all three.
Miki Racine Berardelli 23:14
Yeah, that's great and it ties back to an earlier comment that you made Adam about, that you said, things that we build, versus things that we, I like to, I don't like to say build or buy, because I believe every solution provider relationship should serve as an extension of your team, if there is a core competence that is more efficient, and, you know, more, you know, more effectively done or accomplished by that solution provider. So, it's interesting that you, that, that seems to be a common theme, whether we're talking about organizational structure, or channel balance, or international expansion. So, I appreciate that insight. So, I have learned a lot and I know the audience has as well. Thank you, Heidi and Adam, it's been an honor talking with you. I would like to ask you if there's any final thoughts or news you'd like to share with the audience before we close?
Heidi Cooley 24:12
Sure. So I can summarize that we are a brand with a very clear vision, a vision that everyone should be comfortable in their own shoes and it's that vision that's manifestation into this global invitation to come as you are. So, we would love to invite all of you to follow along on our journey, any social tag you want to follow. You can learn more about our collaborations, our new products, as well as our efforts around brand purpose, sustainability community and inclusivity. I would leave you with this. Although the story of our brand transformation is incredible. The talent behind this transformation is truly remarkable.
Adam Michaels 24:47
Yeah, I will maybe take that opportunity to be a bit more selfish, now that Heidi’s delivered an incredible brand message. We've announced some really ambitious digital goals over the next five years, we're very confident in achieving those. Our team is growing exponentially so I would invite anyone who's interested to join us to please do so and check out our careers page on crocs.com, on LinkedIn, but we'd love to add you to the team because we are moving quickly in hiring fast.
Michael LeBlanc 25:14
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we’ll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com
Michael LeBlanc 25:55
Have a fantastic week everyone!