With decades in the eCommerce and retail technology space, Sarah Rasmusen has been part of the industry’s journey from when digital was a fringe element of the retail equation to when it took the main stage.With deep roots and experience in project management, digital and direct retail, and a vast remit that spans crucial elements of the Lands’ End business, Sarah shared her practical, results-oriented perspectives and advice honed from within one of the world’s top DTC retailers. Next, she takes us through her thought process on what success looks like for our industry’s people and technology vendors and what the future might hold.
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Bloomreach.
With decades in the eCommerce and retail technology space, Sarah Rasmusen has been part of the industry’s journey from when digital was a fringe element of the retail equation to when it took the main stage.
With deep roots and experience in project management, digital and direct retail, and a vast remit that spans crucial elements of the Lands’ End business, Sarah shared her practical, results-oriented perspectives and advice honed from within one of the world’s top DTC retailers. Next, she takes us through her thought process on what success looks like for our industry’s people and technology vendors and what the future might hold.
Here is the link to Sarah's presentation mentioned in our interview:
If you’re enjoying this interview, you may want to join us for the CommerceNext Summit on June 21st & 22nd at the New York Hilton Midtown. Hear execs from companies like GoPuff, American Eagle Outfitters, Kate Spade, Ralph Lauren, Alo Yoga, Neiman Marcus, Olaplex and more. We’ll be gathering our community of trailblazers and change-makers to talk about the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for ecommerce acceleration. The theme of the summit is Seizing the Next Wave of Growth and we’ll be covering everything from how to set up shop in the Metaverse to scaling performance marketing strategies with 1st party data. We hope you will join us in June. Learn more and register at commercenext.com.
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we’ll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com
Retail has always been a part of the life of Sarah Rasmusen, chief customer officer of apparel retailer Lands’ End.
“My first job in high school was at a Mervyn’s department store and all through college I worked at a boutique,” she said. “I was probably the only person in engineering school with a Vogue subscription!”
Although Rasmusen has been a catalyst in many successful projects in a career that has also featured executive roles at retailers including Kohl’s and Saks, her proudest accomplishment is her most recent — getting promoted in June 2019 to chief customer officer for Lands’ End.
“Lands’ End has provided amazing customer service for the last 50 years — service that has become legendary,” she said. “It is not lost on me that no matter what cool tech development comes along, I must not lose sight that I’m now in charge of protecting Lands’ End’s most precious asset — its customer.”
Rasmusen’s responsibilities include leading all customer experiences including core, retail, business-to-business and international, as well as driving strategies to enhance customer-facing capabilities across all Lands’ End selling channels.
Rasmusen urges fellow women working in the retail IT industry to not let their focus on technology obscure the importance of a skill like communication in dealing with colleagues across different departments.
“I loathe making a deck more than anyone, but I know that it’s forced me to hone my message and focus on what’s important,” she said. “I would happily spend my time in the weeds with tech teams. But building and practicing elevator talks have proven crucial to my career, especially with cross-functional leaders and teams.”
ABOUT US:
Scott Silverman
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. I'm your host Michael LeBlanc. This podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Bloomreach.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
With decades in the eCommerce and retail technology space, Sarah Rasmusen has been part of the industry's journey from a fringe element of the retail equation, to the main stage.
Michael LeBlanc 00:22
With deep roots and experience in project management, digital and direct retail, and a vast remit that spans crucial elements of the Lands' End business, Sarah shares her practical results-oriented perspectives and advice honed from within one of the world's top DTC retailers.
Next, she takes us through her thought process and what success looks like for our industry's, people and technology vendors, and what the future might hold.
Sarah Rasmusen 00:44
More and more I'm, I'm interested in people who have gone through I'll say a product management, a true digital product management cycle. You know, people who have served as BAs and gone through a project management track and maybe segued into product management. Retail eCommerce is, is more and more pure, pure tech and pure a-, and I mean, I see the, the evolution to more pure tech companies.
Michael LeBlanc 01:12
Let's listen in now.
Scott Silverman 01:14
I'm really excited to have Sarah Rasmusen with us today. She is EVP and Chief Customer Officer at Lands' End. I've had the pleasure of knowing Sarah for a number of years and, and watching her grow in her career. So, I'm excited to talk to her more today and hear a little bit more about what's going on at Lands' End. So, welcome, Sarah.
Sarah Rasmusen 01:39
Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me. And I was, I was doing the mental math on how long I've known you. And I think we're approaching 20 years.
Scott Silverman 01:46
Right, and we look about the same as, (crossover talk), -
Sarah Rasmusen 01:48
Exactly the same. (crossover talk), -
Scott Silverman 01:48
When we first met.
Sarah Rasmusen 01:49
Yes. Just as youthful as we (inaudible), -
Scott Silverman 01:52
And as always, I am joined by my podcasting co-host and partner, Michael LeBlanc. How are you today, Michael?
Michael LeBlanc 02:02
I'm very good. Thanks for having me on. And Sarah, where are we finding you this morning?
Sarah Rasmusen 02:06
I am in Middleton, Wisconsin. And it is a lovely snowy spring day. It's just started snowing. So, -
Michael LeBlanc 02:15
Well, I'm in Toronto, we're, I think we're, we're sharing the same weather patterns. So, as Scott and I were saying off-mic, this too shall pass. And then (crossover talk) we'll be into the spring weather. Anyway, thanks so much for joining us and I am looking forward to the conversation.
Scott Silverman 02:28
So, I do want to like recommend to our listeners that they go on the CommerceNext YouTube page and watch Sarah's presentation from CommerceNext, from last September. She did an amazing job, really shared a lot of great insights about Gen X. And everybody learned a lot more about Lands' End. So, thank you again for, for doing that, Sarah, it was one of my favorite presentations of the conference and, and you did an amazing job.
Sarah Rasmusen 02:59
Thanks. It was, it was a blast. It was, I guess it a, a deck about Gen X certainly helps when you are a deeply vested party, and obviously very vested in the Lands' End brand. So, being passionate about both made for a, a deck I could be passionate about.
Scott Silverman 03:14
Why don't we start by you know introducing yourself in your current role at Lands' End. You're EVP and Chief Customer Officer, maybe you can tell us about what that entails.
Sarah Rasmusen 03:26
As I'm sure you know, the, you know, the remit of a Chief Customer Officer varies wildly across many, many, many different companies. So, for Lands' End, what it means is that I own, I, that I have responsibility for, for the customer touch points. So, we have a Chief Product Officer and a Chief Customer Officer. You can't have one without the other in retail. It why, my counterpart on the product side manages design, merchandising, sourcing, I manage IT, direct marketing, eCommerce, customer care, and analytics and data science.
Scott Silverman 04:06
Well, that's a that's quite a portfolio.
You know, one of the things we like to do on this podcast is talk about careers. And so, I mentioned earlier, I feel like I've really watched you grow in your career. I, you know, as you mentioned, we probably known each other for 20 years. And I mean, I was looking back at LinkedIn and there was a lot of merchandising in your titles. And, you know, I'm, I'm interested to hear you talk about how your career has progressed. And maybe like do you identify yourself as a merchant? As a digital leader? As something else? As all of the above? You know, help us understand how you view yourself and then how your career has progressed?
Sarah Rasmusen 04:49
Technologist if, if that's, you know, again, that cou-, that could mean anything but. I, I, I've went to engineering school like you know, I straight out of college I was doing stand up software training, I learned how to use Microsoft Project so I could teach people how to use Microsoft Project and, you know, boom, I was a project manager. At school, I was say, I am, still am, a highly inefficient coder. But I figured out that I could, I was pretty good and innately understood how to translate what a, a, an engineer needed to know, back to a business and, and, and you know, back and forth.
Sarah Rasmusen 05:32
So, as the project manager components started to develop, that was, you know, leading in big software roll up Windows 90, Office 95, to a very large law firm that became running a, a large document management project for KPMG with, with GE. As the first dot com boom happened, and everybody was having bagels and playing ping pong and, and doing fun stuff. I switched into doing project management for an interactive ad agency.
If I if I were to say, what's the, you know, one of the questions I think it was or what are pivotal moments, it was, at first off that bat, at bat, knowing how to run a project from start to finish, a primarily technology based project, and be the translator of what the business wanted versus, versus what the, the engineers coders needed to understand. Yeah, I don't know. But we could head off into the history of my life from there. But if you're going to say, again, what's first pivotal moment, it, it would be project management.
Scott Silverman 06:38
Right, right. And I mean, just thinking about people that are listening to this that might be earlier in their careers, I think hearing a little bit more about, you know like how things progressed with you as you, you know, were taking on more responsibility, you know, kind of where that started, and how that led to where you are now?
Sarah Rasmusen 07:03
So, I'll say the first dot com boom, and, and working for this ad agency, I built my first eCommerce website, which was richardsimmons.com. Which looks almost exactly today like it did that until very recently. It was because it was mostly built-in flash. So, they did just recently change that. But, you know, I think we, we stuck on a, a Yahoo checkout module at the end and you could buy Richard's DVDs, and, and I think still VHS tapes. And, and so anyway, that was my first website.
And, and what was amazing to me out of all of that was you could see start to track customer behavior. I mean, this is like analytics 101. I mean, you know, recording a hit, recording a conversion, you know, was basically all we had, but I, I'd, I loved that you could see that. I'll say the first dot com boom past, and everything dried up.
Sarah Rasmusen 07:59
Over, over time, what would happen was Bloomingdale's was looking for somebody to, a project manager, to bring the Bloomingdale's website back online. Cue the way back Machine, holiday 20/21, after holi-, holiday, s-sorry. After holiday 2001, Federated had shut down the Bloomingdale's website.
And in kind of a throwback to BOPIS today. I mean, that's what they were doing that time on the Bloomingdale's website is you could buy a, they just kind of put up products. And you could buy a Coach handbag on Bloomingdale's dot com and what was happening was the person who worked on the website would basically you know, take the ticket, walk into 59th Street and take that Coach bag off the floor and package it up and send it to the customer. Leveraging store inventory, sure, but no one knew. So, a-, a-, anyway, but Federated had, had shut down Bloomingdale's, but Bloomingdale's like no, we need, we need something.
And so, I was hired as a Project Manager to bring the Bloomingdale's website back online, to sell gift cards and be a store locator because that's all anybody would ever want to do on Bloomingdale's. You know, it's about driving traffic to the stores. And that you know, that's all anybody will ever really want to do. I got that up and running.
Sarah Rasmusen 09:16
But my, my boss at the time, who's also been in eCommerce forever and ever, Lisa Kabbalists had a vision that it could be more. And she had a vision that we could leverage the Bloomingdale's By Mail, catalog business to bring that online again, it's direct to consumer, right? This is a catalog business. We catalogers know how to do this. We could build out that catalog bring it to life online and, and see if we could you know, can we, can we get a website up and running, eCommerce website up and running. And we did.
And, and it was, again in the in the pivotal moments of you know, very quickly I went from okay, I'm a project manager, I could launch a website to, oh, the pants have to go in the pants category. And what, what are the things that make that happen? How do you marry up the, the copy with the image? How do you turn on Zoom? What does it take to launch a, you know, search on a website? All of these things became what is now just sort of digital merchandising as a practice. It was had marketing in my name, it was under me too. We, you know, we're basically sending email blasts, this is the, i-, i-, these are the days where you just took everyone you had on file and you, or you could, (crossover talk), do any sort of appends you wanted to, and your email list could grow from you know, zero to a million overnight, if you had that capacity.
Sarah Rasmusen 10:49
Obviously, lots of things have changed. But, you know, it was just this incredible time, both inside Bloomingdale's where I, I had the, I was given freedom. And, and, and when I went to Saks, it became that way too where you just had the freedom to try anything, because nobody believed that Bloomingdale's or Saks dot com would ever be anything. So, it could just be kind of like, you, you know the cowboy days, like, I don't know, let's just put it up and see what, what can we learn? And you I will try it?
Michael LeBlanc 11:21
I remember the CEO of Hudson's Bay telling me when I was building out their site in 2000, just, just don't mess it up because it'll, it'll mess up the brand. I don't think this will ever really add up too much. But just don't, you know, embarrass us basically. So, do, do a competent job and I'll be happy basically, was, was the kind of the, the guidelines, right?
Sarah Rasmusen 11:42
Yeah.
Scott Silverman 11:42
I mean, you're getting the freedom but you're also it, in those days, you know, eCommerce, it didn't have the respect at the in the boardroom. So, it was, there were still a lot of business case building and fruit mak-, you know, proving to everyone. Which I loved being around all of those people that were so passionate in, in and believers in this.
Sarah Rasmusen 12:06
Yeah, and it was, it was also a time when we would I mean, that, (inaudible) we would all just sit around at a table and talk about everything. I mean, because nobody in our companies was really listening to us.
Michael LeBlanc 12:17
Yeah.
Sarah Rasmusen 12:18
Did you find it as a support group, Scott?
Scott Silverman 12:21
Absolutely, yeah, I always talk about, you know, commiseration was one of the key elements of those conferences at that time (crossover talk).
So, I mean, it's interesting to hear you talk about those some of those earlier days in your career, I think I've heard you mentioned that you do some mentoring. And I'm interested to hear what kind of advice you give to people earlier in their digital commerce career. Because I think things are very different now, you were talking about a time when eCommerce hadn't proved itself out. It's very different now, especially post COVID, where I don't know you know, any retailer or brand where digital isn't a strategic priority. So, that, that must change things the way some of these early eCommerce people in their careers need to think about things. But you know, what, what, how, how do you approach younger people in their careers right now?
Sarah Rasmusen 13:19
You know, if they're coming in, and they're junior, and specifically working for a website, I maintain these, they still don't really know what to expect. Again, the title of Digital Merchandising can mean anything. Digital Marketing are you email, or you know, or you acquisition or are you retention? Are you it's so, so fluid and, you know, you can't have a good SEO marketing program without a, you know, really nicely optimized digitally merchandise site, right. So, you can't have one without the other. So, to that end, the intellectual curiosity that served all of us so well, 20 years ago, can still serve somebody Jr. Very well, right? I mean, you pull a thread and, and you know, this is connected to that, and that's connected to this.
Sarah Rasmusen 14:04
So, you know, take the job that you're offered working for a large website and, and know that it could, you know, a job over here in digital merchandising could very easily lead to one in analytics and testing could very, you know, having a little more curiosity there can tier you up to you know, taking a Python class can tier you up into the data science team. You know, how valuable could it be to have a data scientist who understood product and loved products, right? They, I think there's just so many ways it could go that intellectual curiosity is, is the number one thing and then just don't say no, as a something as a some-, if you're asked to jump on something else, because you'll never know what it will lead to.
Scott Silverman 14:50
Do you find that, that they get it about being intellectually curious or do they often, like the default mode is just too be in their lane, so to speak, and just get their stuff done?
Sarah Rasmusen 15:06
So that's culture, and that's something that's important to me as a leader, right. I have, I model that I'm okay being ish, that testing is important that it's okay to be wrong. You know, the, the art versus the science, retail still heavily leans on the, on the art. If okay, if you think that's it, right, we'll test it, let's test it and get, you know. And when the culture knows that that's okay and they can do that, they can start to see where they influence more. But if you are in a, you know, you're here to build product pages, and you are here to attribute correctly in the you know, DAM and PIM so if we can, you know, and then never look out. And I don't think that's an interesting job for people and I'm sorry, I'm sure it's interesting for some people. But and God bless them all. But you know, for, for those who want to grow it, that's, that's not where you need to stay.
Michael LeBlanc 16:07
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back with our interview with Sarah Rasmusen from Lands' End, right after this message.
Michael LeBlanc 16:19
Bloomreach is the world's number one eCommerce Experience Cloud empowering brands to deliver customer journeys so personalized, they feel like magic. It offers a suite of products that drive true personalization and digital commerce growth, including discovery, offering AI driven search, merchandising content, offering a headless CMS and engagement offering a leading CDP and marketing automation solution.
Together these solutions combine the power of unified customer and product data with the speed and scale of AI optimization, enabling digital commerce experiences that convert on any channel and every journey. Learn more at bloomreach.com, that's bloomreach.com
Michael LeBlanc 17:01
Well, let's pick up on that thread and talk about the next generation of digital leaders. You've had a tremendous career and, and really chronicled the growth of eCommerce and retail and modern retail. So, let's talk about the next generation of digital leaders. What, what, what's your advice about what to look for? What do you look for when we're talking about, not entry levels, but senior leaders who have the potential to be the next, the next you, the next senior role? Is i-, i-, it you've talked about intellectual curiosity, you've talked about subject matter expertise, technical abilities, what in your mind stands out as what will be the key characteristics of success moving forward?
Sarah Rasmusen 17:36
Eh-, eh-, you know, you it's, it's this passion and knowledge, all of those things. I think, more and more, I'm, I'm interested in people who have gone through I'll say a product management, a true digital product management cycle. You know, people who have served as BAs and gone into a project management track and maybe segued into product management. Retail eCommerce is, is more and more pure, pure tech and pure, l, I mean, I see the, the evolution to more of pure tech companies than staying pure retail with a little bit of tech offshoot.
Michael LeBlanc 18:16
Hmm, interesting.
Well, let's, let's pick up on the whole tech piece, there's like you know, 4000, VC based marketing tech companies as, as everyone starts to decide what their tech stack is, as you know, you got new tools, new ideas, practically daily. You could probably spend all your time and more just trying to figure out, you know, lay out who's in what's grid of what place and what technology now how do you balanced, how do balance the staying focused to getting what's done versus keeping one hand or one eye open towards a technology that could be a breakthrough, that could take you geometrically as opposed to arithmetically forward? How do you, how do you balance those two things, or maybe three or four things all at the same time?
Michael LeBlanc 19:09
Yeah.
Sarah Rasmusen 18:59
A year ago, when I got the technology team, and marketing team, I was you know, probably one of the first few like, okay, how is this going to, how is this going to work?
Sarah Rasmusen 19:09
And, and now I, I, I, sorry and I very quickly grew to love it because, again, you can't have mar- without the tech these days and, and vice versa, right. So, I have my technology team working closer than ever with the marketing team. And, and again, that when I talk about like, how I see the merging of, of product management into that. I, I, I start to see that come to life.
Now, the 4000 cold call emails you get from you know, whe-, how do you cut through the noise? We are so antiquatedly, analytically driven, that I, I do know where the opportunities are. And as, a as a leadership team, we know where the opportunities are in our funnel, whether its brand building at the top or way down to you know, getting an extra bit out of the conversion funnel. The, the first people I weed out or honestly the people who would tell me they can increase our conversion ra-, or they've, they've increased conversion rates by 10%. Thank you and goodbye.
Michael LeBlanc 20:11
Not for us, you won't. I mean, (crossover talk), it is it is true at different organizations, you know, someone has experienced and as depth, it's very, very hard for you as an organization to get that conversion level up.
Sarah Rasmusen 20:23
Yeah, I mean that,
Michael LeBlanc 20:24
you're right.
Sarah Rasmusen 20:25
And certainly, we there have, I mean, yes, we added a search engine into the site. Yeah, conversion improved by 10%. But yeah, I mean, those days are, are done for mature websites. Now it is. It's also a layer into, you know, the next look is a, is it, is it our is our customer, right. So, we have an older customer leading bleeding is, is not so important for Lands' End. And, and not to say that we, we you know, we are, you know, over 90% digital, we, we can't not, but I'll, I'll pick on lots of the opt payment methods that are out there. You know, I get cau-, you know, Genz-iers love us.
Michael LeBlanc 21:05
Yeah.
Sarah Rasmusen 21:06
That's cool.
Michael LeBlanc 21:08
We don't happen to sell much to them or whatever, you know, -
Sarah Rasmusen 21:11
Who does the Gen Xers and, and Boomers love?
Michael LeBlanc 21:13
Yeah.
Sarah Rasmusen 21:14
You know, that's why PayPal is has, has continued to be a great partner for us, with us, as, as we, you know, mess around with those because that's where if a customer is going to use something, it's going to be that. So, I would say, you know, again, it has to hit the mark of our KPIs where our problem points are, and then does it fit? Is there easy to register fit to our customer profile?
Michael LeBlanc 21:38
If you're enjoying this interview, you may want to join us for the CommerceNext Summit on June 21st and 22nd at the New York Hilton, Midtown. Hear execs from companies like GoPuff, American Eagle Outfitters, Kate Spade, Ralph Lauren, Alo yoga, Neiman Marcus, Olaplex, and more.
We'll be gathering our community of trailblazers and change-makers to talk about the future of digital commerce and share the latest strategies for eCommerce acceleration. The theme of the summit is Seizing the Next Wave of Growth and we'll be covering everything from how to set up shop in the Metaverse to scaling performance marketing strategies with first party data. We hope you will join us in June. Learn more and register at commercenext.com.
Michael LeBlanc 22:16
So, I, I guess a quick follow-on question for the listeners or viewers, because make sure if you're listening to this, check out our YouTube page to see the interview. But you know, you advice to tech vendors, suppliers potential partners, what are the one or two key things they need to do? I, I guess research who we are would be kind of table stakes. But in your mind what differentiates a, a reach out, or a pitch, or connection that stands out in your mind, just in one kind of, you know, a bit of elevator advice for anyone thinking they'd like to do business with you or Lands' End.
Sarah Rasmusen 22:49
Those who cut through to me are doing a longer, softer sell getting to know me better and getting to know, the Lands' End website better, aren't coming in hard. Like I said with the, you know, 10% or, you know, we can save you, you know, millions of dollars a year. You know, we, we are, if, I-, I'd say do your research. We are a publicly traded company and, and, and I think in our scripts and other press events, you know, we, we speak pretty openly about things like our conversion rates and, so the accuser there or just for savvy salesperson do the, -
Michael LeBlanc 23:27
Just a follow on.
Sarah Rasmusen 23:28
Do it, do just do a little bit of the homework.
Michael LeBlanc 23:30
Yeah, right on. Let's turn our minds to the future, now. The role of the chief customer officer, the role of the future, we, we often ask on Conversations with CommerceNext, to put yourself, if not yourself, personally, but your role five years in the future. So, what, is your role look like, five years in the future? Are the attributes different than they are today? And, and if you cast your mind, you know, to 2027. Thanks, Scott for doing the math, because I'm terrible at math and the question, but you know, what, what does your role look like? Is it, does it still exist? Is it broader? Talk about that.
Sarah Rasmusen 24:06
What is broader? (crossover talk), -
Michael LeBlanc 24:08
Narrower (crossover talk) and maybe it's, maybe it's, (crossover talk), -
Sarah Rasmusen 24:11
I mean broader for me at this point would be, you know, yeah, that would, it, it's daunting. I, I guess I keep going back to the, the tech side. I mean again, like I said, every company who has a Chief Customer Officer calls it is the remit of something different then their Chief Experience Officer and their Chief Revenue Officer. And, you know, I don't know if there will ever be a single definition and that's, that's okay. I mean maybe we will all evolve back to Chief Marketing Officer. Which I, I can see again given the tech and, and, and marketing coming, the convergence there.
What I like the most from my current role and which I would hope would continue commercially is the, the marriage, the not the us them of, of digital and marketing and then tech over here. I would like that convergence to become more of a practice corporately. I think that's better for any company regardless, because the checks and balances sit in the same organization. It's not, you know, one big CAPEX on your P&L. You know som-, you know it's, it's, it's I think (inaudible) I think it's better for the P&L.
Michael LeBlanc 25:26
All right now, let's many organizations are hiring these days and I wanted to see if you're hiring and this is kind of your, the mic is your so to speak to promote roles, or the organization, what you're looking for, we'll even put a link in the show notes. But is there anything that comes to mind of roles you're looking for? How many roles you're looking at right now? And do they kind of work anywhere? Do they work in your head offices? Let's talk about as I said the mic is yours.
Sarah Rasmusen 25:51
Yeah, I'm right now I'd like cargo ships. And, -
Michael LeBlanc 25:56
Boat drivers, cargo ships, dock workers, -
Sarah Rasmusen 26:00
Let's just say a very large company that we advertise, advertise with, asked what they could do for us and I said, I think it would be great if you guys got into the airline business.
Michael LeBlanc 26:13
Pilots,
Sarah Rasmusen 26:14
Google will not be buying airplanes. But so, we're regularly and openly, often hiring. And I'd say it's what's most interesting for me right now is, is that business analyst, project manager, product manager, track. I think, the opportunity to create versatility out of those people on that track. They can, you know, segue into the business really easily if they you know, spend a year doing a particular engagement, they can segue out of the business they can take. So, I'd, I'd say that's where we're hiring the most right now. But yeah, I'd say cross company though, I mean, merchants, designers, product managers, sourcing, you know, it, it, take a look and check us out.
Michael LeBlanc 27:03
Do you hire now differently than you did pre-COVID? Do you hire remotely? Do they need to be in head office? So, does that is that been helpful? Or is that expanded your, your addressable market so to speak, and the people you can hire? How do you think about that?
Sarah Rasmusen 27:16
Yeah, certainly, it's expanded our addressable market it you know, we're in relatively, I mean we're 45 miles due west of Madison, Wisconsin, and, and pretty rural, not very diverse. So, it's, it's open. You know, being a hybrid workplace has opened up a lot for us. Brene Brown just had it in her, ‘Dare to Lead’ podcast just had a really interesting about, the podcast is called, ‘Toxic Work Forces’. But i-, i,- in the end, what they're getting into is, how, and who will shape what return to office is and what that looks like? And they talk about, you have, you know, a tier, that needs to be fully remote and those are your highly paid data architects, data engineers, data scientists.
Sarah Rasmusen 27:32
Below you have the people who need to be in the office every day for, you know, working in our warehouse or working in, and you know, the operators, right. And then there's this middle tier of, of hybrid, and how that middle tier is, is it, how much responsibility is on them with the companies they work for, to, to really shape what hybrid is, what return to office is, what the culture is. And, and I, I found that so interesting, it's obvious when you think about it, but shaping what hybrid is, I think, is going to be one of the biggest things I deal with as a leader for the next year,
Michael LeBlanc 28:04
Shaping the culture for the future, right. It's so fascinating, because it's probably I, I'd, I'd go out on a limb and say that it probably may not have been the culture pre-COVID. But I don't know, like I didn't look at the percentage. I know I talked a lot of leaders who said the culture is very different in terms of how we hire now. And for some of it, they're all trying to figure it out. Everyone's trying to figure it out. But again, for folks who are in less populated areas, more remote areas that some people just would absolutely love to live there, and others might be a little more difficult.
But that's, that's fantastic. Thanks for those insights.
Scott Silverman 29:06
Well, Sarah, thank you so much for spending some time talking about your background and what you're doing at Lands' End. I think, for anyone listening to this that's thinking about a career at Lands' End, I think you gave them a lot to think about in terms of how you reward intellectual curios-, curiosity, how the importance of technology and, and you didn't say this exactly but it's kind of what I heard, which is, it seems like you really reward someone that thinks like a product person that, that likes to build product. So, so anyway, this was great. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I've really admired watching you grow in your career, and I always enjoy hearing your point of view. So, thank you so much for spending some time with us today.
Sarah Rasmusen 29:54
Thank you, Scott and Michael, great to meet you.
Michael LeBlanc 29:57
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform, where we will be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode.
CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in person events. We harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers.
Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest eCommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at commercenext.com Have a fantastic week everyone.