With 80 million registered users globally and growing, Poshmark is a next generation dynamic retailer and a true force to be reckoned with. For our season one finale of Conversations with CommerceNext, we sit down with Poshmark’s CMO, Steven Tristan Young to talk about the company’s growth, his leadership style and how to keep up with the post-COVID consumer.
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Wunderkind.
With 80 million registered users globally and growing, Poshmark is a next generation dynamic retailer and a true force to be reckoned with.
For our season one finale of Conversations with CommerceNext, we sit down with Poshmark’s CMO, Steven Tristan Young to talk about the company’s growth, his leadership style and how to keep up with the post-COVID consumer.
Hear how Steven is managing his team in Poshmark’s new work-from-home structure and his perspective on higher education and work ethic when assessing new candidates for his team.
With the unique audience that Poshmark has captured, we’re keen to unpack Steven’s strategy towards changing consumer behavior.
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Conversations with CommerceNext. Please follow us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or your favorite podcast platform where we’ll be sharing career advice and marketing strategies from eCommerce and digital marketing leaders at retailers and direct-to-consumer brands each and every episode. CommerceNext is a community, event series and conference for marketers at retail and direct-to-consumer brands. Through our online forums, interviews, webinars, summits and other in-person events, we harness the collective wisdom of our community to help marketers grow their businesses and advance their careers. Join CommerceNext events to meet other industry leaders and learn the latest ecommerce and marketing strategies. You can find upcoming events at CommerceNext.com
Steven Tristan Young
Experienced entrepreneurial senior executive who has a passion for building high performing marketing teams and scaling high growth businesses. Well versed in developing market rollout strategies, P&L budget management, and ROI focused media/capital investment. Leverages consumer insights to identify consumer trends while building internal systems built on strong analytics, cross functional collaboration, and constant innovation mindset.
Creative thinker and business operator who leverages 15+ years of experience from various industries (financial, tech, consumer product, entertainment) to use marketing strategies effectively as a revenue/profit driver.
Out for Undergrad in Tech: Keynote Speaker October 2020: https://bit.ly/3iaQNT2
Out in Tech NYC : Keynote Speaker November 2016: https://bit.ly/3nF6Zx5
Find out more about me at: https://linktr.ee/StevenTrisYoung
Areas of Expertise: Strategic Marketing - P&L Management- Demand Generation - Financial Forecasting and Modeling - LTV and Cohort Analysis - Online and Offline Direct marketing - Mobile Marketing - Display Advertising - Programmatic Buying - TV/ OOH/ Radio Media buying - Email marketing - Customer Segmentation - Multivariate Testing - Online Attribution Partnership Marketing, - Multi-Channel marketing - Online Analytics - Referral marketing - Growth Hacking - Agency Recruitment and Management - SEO/SEM marketing - Creative Team Management - Web UX/UI
ABOUT US:
Scott Silverman
An ecommerce veteran, Scott Silverman has been active in the industry since 1999 and is passionate about digital retail and the innovation driving the industry. Scott Silverman is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. Previously, he spent 10 years as Executive Director of Shop.org where he launched the Shop.org Annual Summit. Scott co-invented “Cyber Monday” in 2005 and was the founder of Cybermonday.com in 2006, a shopping site that has generated more than $2.5 million for Shop.org’s scholarship fund.
Veronika Sonsev
Veronika Sonsev is the Co-Founder of CommerceNext. She also leads the retail practice for Chameleon Collective and is a contributor for Forbes on how to grow retail and ecommerce in the age of Amazon. Having spent the last 10+ years working with some of the largest retailers and direct-to-consumer brands, Veronika has intimate knowledge of the challenges facing retail and ecommerce today. She is also an advocate for women in business and founded the global non-profit mBolden, which is now part of SheRunsit.
Michael LeBlanc is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice. He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career. Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada’s top retail industry podcast, The Voice of Retail, plus Global E-Commerce Tech Talks and The Food Professor with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois. You can learn more about Michael here or on LinkedIn.
Michael LeBlanc 00:04
Welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast, I’m your host Michael LeBlanc, and this podcast is brought to you in conjunction with CommerceNext and presented by Wunderkind.
Michael LeBlanc 00:12
With 80 million registered users globally and growing, Poshmark is a next generation dynamic retailer and a true force to be reckoned with.
Michael LeBlanc 00:19
For our season one finale of Conversations with CommerceNext, we sit down with Poshmark’s CMO, Steven Tristan Young to talk about the company’s growth, his leadership style and how to keep up with the post-COVID consumer.
Michael LeBlanc 00:31
Hear how Steven is managing his team in Poshmark’s new work-from-home structure and his perspective on higher education and work ethic when assessing new candidates for his team.
Michael LeBlanc 00:40
With the unique audience that Poshmark has captured, we’re keen to unpack Steven’s strategy towards changing consumer behavior.
Steven Tristan Young 00:47
One thing I'll say is in my last role at Grubhub, I actually had the benefit of already having a distributed team. I had half my team in New York, half in Chicago, and I had some sprinkled across the country and so I actually started to really think about, back then, what does it mean to be a leader of a distributed team and really thinking about how do I create, you know, things like, how do I create water cooler moments for my team even if we're all in different places, how do we bring people together.
Michael LeBlanc 01:13
Let's listen in now. Steven, welcome to the Conversations with CommerceNext podcast. How are you doing today?
Steven Tristan Young 01:19
Good. How are you? It's like a happy Thursday, very excited.
Michael LeBlanc 01:23
Very good. Now, where are we finding you today, what part of the world are we joining you in?
Steven Tristan Young 01:28
So, it's a very good question. Normally I am all over the map. I've actually been traveling a lot more for work as in the last six, eight months, but today, actually, you'll find me in San Francisco, where I'm based. I originally lived in New York for 15 years where I would say I probably spent the majority of my career and then moved to San Francisco to join Poshmark in 2018 and it's been an exciting journey. I'm so happy, not one to just be able to run a company that was right at the brink of, sort of, growing and blowing up into the marketplace, but to also to be in a state like California where I think live-, quality of living and, you know, weather's fantastic. So, I don't mind that at all.
Michael LeBlanc 02:04
Well, and of course, I'm joined by my, my co-host, co-founder of CommerceNext. Scott Silverman, who, coincidentally, Scott, you're obviously not in the CommerceNext headquarters. You look like you're in a hotel room. Where are you?
Scott Silverman 02:17
I'm actually in San Francisco, so I can wave to you and maybe you'll see me, Steven.
Michael LeBlanc 02:25
All right, well, fantastic. I'm in Toronto. So, we're, we're at different ends of the continent, but great to be connected here today. Look, let's, let's just jump right in. You've told us a little bit about yourself and your background. Tell us a little bit more. I mean, you, you gave us a quick overview, mostly, you know, from New York, operated in New York, tell us about your retail background and how you came to Poshmark and what you do there.
Steven Tristan Young 02:51
So, what'll be interesting is I actually don't, I would say I actually have like a typical retail background. Like I think at the highest level, you know, I've always dreamed of being a Chief Marketing Officer. So, when I started my career out of college, I went to Penn, specifically went to the Wharton School, where everyone's very much into finance. I happen to be the one of few people that's like, I really like marketing, I have a passion for it. I think the element of creativity, data, psychology, are all things that we're, I'm incredibly passionate about and so I started my career working at Puma the sports company and from there really evolved into I would say, vacillating between high tech, as well as consumer, consumer brands.
Steven Tristan Young 03:28
I've actually spent probably north of 15 years in three different high growth companies. One I started as an, as early as like employee number 10, which was like the, like second largest like web hosting business in the US, then I joined Seamless before it turned into Grubhub and merged right before it IPO-ed in 2014 and then I joined Poshmark, I said, in 2018, but to supplement that, I've also spent some time in some big brands, which include American Express, DirectTV and Puma, for me, really the navigating between these large, big brands, and to these high growth has been about, you know, depending on where in my career, looking for opportunities, where either it was a learning experience, or it was a high impact experience and for me, these high growth companies are where I can do a lot of impact and I take a lot of things that I learned in those big brands and share with them, and then vice versa.
Steven Tristan Young 03:28
And so people always ask, like, you know, if you chose, if you could choose again, where would you want to go, it's like, I honestly don't know, it really depends on the opportunity. It often depends on where I'm in my life in terms of what do I want to learn and what challenges really excite me and that for me, has been a, I would say, the North Star and whenever I look at opportunities, if I look at the opportunity to say, I could do this in my sleep, I really don't want to do it, right. If I look at I go, oh, that's kind of scary, I've never done that before, what's gonna happen there, those are things that I then gravitate toward more and then unpack and peel because for me that has been fundamentally what's, what's been driving me from every opportunity to the next.
Steven Tristan Young 04:52
You know, brands aside, size of company, outcome, opportunity aside, really the challenge and leadership and the team and fundamentally I also think Where is there an opportunity where marketing truly is going to be valued, right, where marketing has a seat at the table and being able to help shape the company's direction and strategy, how to drive adoption of the product or the service, and ultimately how to position the product alongside other competitors or the market space as a whole?
Michael LeBlanc 05:17
Well, that's a great background. I mean, it's like you're living at the intersection of technology and, and direct response and e-commerce and marketing. I mean, it's a really interesting place to live, so to speak, as is, I'm sure, San Francisco. For those perhaps less familiar with Poshmark and, and in fact, I often find that even, you know, people who are familiar, at least at a high level, with Poshmark, don't know all the ins and outs, tell us a bit about the company, its scope and scale, I see you have job openings, which we'll get to a bit later and in places like Sydney and London, and you talked about traveling. So, tell us a bit about Poshmark.
Steven Tristan Young 05:49
So, to explain Poshmark a little bit, it's a social marketplace that allows people to sell gently used or brand-new items. The company started over 10 years ago, primarily focused on fashion as its category, but has expanded to add beauty, Home Goods, as well as pets and sneakers and I would say that the marketplace itself fundamentally defines them as a social marketplace, meaning it's not just an eBay, but it's not just an Amazon. There's an element where people interact with each other. So, if you think about all the actions that you're used to doing on Facebook, on Snapchat, etc., a lot of those actions, we actually bring into this marketplace and use those as a way for people to drive and make sales. So you can 'like' an item and that effectively allows us to say like, hey, you've got 50 people who liked your product that's effectively 50 leads, how do you market to them and how do we give you the tools to help them help sell and move your product.
Steven Tristan Young 06:38
So in some ways, we're allowing sellers and empowering them to sell their own products without having to learn SEO, without having to learn, you know, HTML to build emails, it's really kind of an ability for people to be a casual seller or a power seller and like I said, we've grown to over 80 million registered users, we're now about 4, 3, we launched in 3 global countries with more on the way and I think for us, it's a really exciting place because if you think about social commerce, which is the area that we're, in the category we're in. A lot of that is happening now, like, people want to buy, but people also want to engage online, they want to understand a little bit more what they're buying, you know, instead of buying just from a big brand with this, you know, the letter A or the letter W people also want to buy from other people.
Steven Tristan Young 07:19
And I think you've probably seen the last couple of years, that idea around sustainability and circularity really blowing up and I think that's what I saw when I joined, you know, three years ago that this is a space that may not be top of mind right now, but it will be over the next three to eight to 10 years. In the same way that, you know, the analogy I give to people is, imagine, you know, 50 years ago, the thought of, like, living in someone else's couch, someone's home or using someone else's car was very alien to all of us and now it's so commonplace. The same idea that why would I want to buy a gently worn jacket, it's like, well, because instead of buying fast fashion, you're like, I just want something based on the style that matches what I want, and I don't want to pay full price. So, why don't I just buy it on Poshmark and be able to then say, once I'm done with it, resell it back into the fashion ecosystem. So, I think it really allows people to not, like I said, not necessarily own goods, but to be able to still have the goods with them to contribute back to this element of circularity and sustainability, which I know a lot of our young users absolutely love about the product and platform.
Michael LeBlanc 08:19
You know, what I love about it, as I reflect on what you're discussing, it's this bridging the chasm between pure efficiency and experience in retail, right. On these, sometimes your two ends of the spectrum, you're very, very efficient, but the experience is, you know, it is what it is, is very efficient, versus experiential, right. So, it sounds like that, that, kind of, intersection of those two and then social media and e-commerce. Very interesting. One quick question for you now, do you usually ship direct to the customer, or you act as an intermediary, tell me a little bit about that.
Steven Tristan Young 08:48
So, majority of our sales, it is sellers, selling, sending directly to buyers, we do have an authentication business for any item worth 500, where we actually have the item shipped to us, we then physically authenticate it and then communicate to both the buyer and seller that yes, we validated this bag, this sneaker is actually legitimate in terms of, like, all of our guidelines, do you want it. So, those are the, there are some moments when we actually are an intermediary when it comes to, sort of, these higher end products, but for the most part, we allow the sellers and the buyers to interact with each other to make the transaction much more seamless.
Scott Silverman 09:21
So, I’m really excited to have a chance to sit down and talk with you Steven for a number of reasons. One of them is more on the personal side. I have a teenage daughter. A few years ago, she started selling on Poshmark. She's about to go into college. Now she's really interested in marketing and business, and I credit, you know, that experience on Poshmark, partially, for that. So, I thought that was very cool, but also, you were a speaker at CommerceNext IRL at the end of September. Thank you for being part of that and you talked a lot about leadership and said some things that really resonated with me, and I wanted to touch on those a bit.
Scott Silverman 10:00
And I'll start with when you came into the role as CMO, you mentioned that instead of coming in hot and making a bunch of changes, and you know, turning over the team there, you really took time to understand the business and getting to know your team members and you ended up really benefiting from the domain knowledge that they had and retaining a lot of people, which, in retrospect, is even more important, given what's going on in the market right now, but maybe you could talk a little bit about that experience and what motivates, you know, senior marketers, like, to come in and what, you know, why would someone come in hot at this point, yeah, I'd love to hear your, your point of view there.
Steven Tristan Young 10:42
Definitely. What I'll, I'll say is in my time at American Express, I often saw a lot of leaders after reorgs, trying to create, you know, their organizational footprint as fast as possible, whether it's determining who on the team they liked, didn't like high potential low potential, even, you know, if HR handed him an entire sheet of like, where people fell into the nine box, they still had their own opinion and I think this bourns from the fact that people feel that, you know, working through others, is a lot more work than just working from people that you already know, right, bringing your own team hiring people that you like, and I guess, I don't think either approach is necessarily bad or wrong, I think you always have to look at the culture and say, Is this the kind of culture that wants you to turn it over, right and that's part of the norm.
Steven Tristan Young 11:22
Versus a culture where, you know, there's a lot of amazing people here, they're bringing in a leader to help unlock some of those people's potential and capabilities, and really function more as a coach, less of a transform-, transformation leader and I'll say that, I think the reason why people probably sometimes come in hot is, a lot of it feels like people want to make that imprint immediately, right or they want to feel like they want to add value as quickly as possible when sometimes adding the value is first assessing what's going on really getting the depth and understanding like how things truly work before they figure out where can you step in and actually make those changes and sometimes those changes can be smaller change, they don't have to be big wholesale changes. I think, to some degree, similarly, not just in the people, I also didn't come in, like I said, not that every CMO does this. It's, like, I want to change the brand and have a new agency retool everything within a year. What I actually, was very intentional was that, listen, actually, the spread is pretty good.
Steven Tristan Young 12:11
You know what, I think I need to understand a little bit more about the customer base, how things were and let's put that on the back burner because also we're about to launch new categories. We're about to launch into another country, I'd like to actually see that, that play out first and then raise the brand question, what do we want to be when we grow up, so that the brand strategy really maps to, kind of, like, our future view, not just a change in where we came from and so if you look at that, it just means to me, my approach is very intentional, and very thoughtful. I also benefit, in fact a fantastic CEO who gave me guidance on this, like, you know, don't try to change too much too quickly. Even though that, in my mindset, that's what I wanted, but really listening to that and say, okay, well, how do I take that in and still be able to say, where do I think change needs to happen, so that I can start to drive a bit of impact.
Steven Tristan Young 12:56
I also think that sometimes people don't realize, you know, how hard it is to hire, how hard it is to, you know, suddenly up end an entire system, but I do think that every leader comes with that perspective and some people have to learn it the hard way that you know, coming into what doesn't work and sometimes it might, it might be necessary. So it really depends, I think, on the organization, it depends a lot on how you, what the leadership or the board sold to you as far as what they need you to do and you also realizing how much can I really get done. I think that's the other thing, is people underestimate how much time things take, right. Whether it's hiring, or even changing a system in the process, the level of influence. It's, it's a lot of, like, not just boulders, it's a lot of small, mid sized boulders, you've got to move. At the same time, you're still trying to learn the business.
Steven Tristan Young 13:39
So, I know I, I don't know if I stumbled upon, but I do know that I spoke to a lot of other people who had been in similar roles and ask them like, what would you have done differently if you could do it all over again and I consistently heard like, I would have taken a little bit more time, I would have thought about a little bit more because I think everyone comes in wanting, you know, to fill their egos like, oh, I'm the big cheese, I've got to make this change. Instead of saying who actually, let me first figure out how I want to interact in this organization and what's the right way for me to actually drive that change, is it from the front, is it from the back, is from the side.
Scott Silverman 14:11
I mean, I understand, you know, maybe there are some situations where coming in hot makes sense, but I just feel like we're moving in a direction where your approach and I, kind of, see it as just like humble leadership, is one that is going to pay the best dividends in the future and I, I'm a big believer in the importance of leadership. I think there's a lot of things that we talk about at CommerceNext and we get into the weeds a lot and, but none of it can get done without strong leadership and servant leadership. So, um, yeah, I wanted to, kind of, continuing along this, this thread of leadership. You spent more than half of your ten-, tenure at Poshmark in this working, work from home environment and you even went through an IPO during the COVID. So, you know, how have you adapted your management style to work from home, what's, what's been working and what do you think others should be thinking about?
Steven Tristan Young 15:16
It's great question. One thing I'll say is, in my last role at Grubhub, I actually had the benefit of really having a distributed team. I had half my team in New York, half in Chicago, and I had some sprinkled across the country and so I actually started to really think about, back then, what does it mean to be a leader of a distributed team and really thinking about how do I create, you know, things like, how do I create water cooler moments for my team, even if we're all in different places, how do we bring people together and use, you know, Zoom, or BlueJeans to create shared experiences
Steven Tristan Young 15:47
And so in some sense, I actually went back to that playbook that I had at Grubhub and said, oh, my gosh, actually, I know how to do this and, sort of, transported and still made some changes, right because I do think that everyone being distributed is very different than half the team in Chicago, half the team in New York, so that when I go to each office, I can still see a whole team, spend time with them connect, understand, you know, get the lay of the land, here, it's very, very hard. So, I think one thing I've had to realize is, my ability to connect with everyone is going to be much more limited. I can't do one-on-ones with everyone. So, how do I find ways to either do more joint, you know, one on ones with teams or sub teams to how do I leverage other people and say, what's going on with that team, what's going on with those individuals, how are they feeling, really trying to dig deeper into not just how are you feeling, but how are people around you feeling and connecting the stories about what I hear from different people and say, oh, there's an area where this individual might need some more support, he or she may not raise their hand, but other people who are seeing it, can I use that as a reason to, you know, to double click into this and say, how do we support it.
Steven Tristan Young 16:45
Because everyone's, kind of, out of sight, out of mind, right and it's a little bit hard. I think I've also had to think through how do I connect with the team in a way that's a bit more, I would say this, automated, so whether it's an anniversary or a birthday, can we make sure that I'm still connecting with them and showing my appreciation for their work and then finally, I think for me, realizing also that a lot of me being a strong leader is understanding what's going to work for me in this new world. You know, we are all, like, I'm used to being in meetings all day, but at the same time, it's also incredibly exhausting for me to be constantly on the screen talking. So, even changing myself, maybe I don't always use Zoom, maybe I take phone calls, maybe I might do it on off hours and tell people it's like, I also need to have a break, right and then also, most importantly, I would say being vulnerable in how I feel. I mean, there was a time, I will tell you, that I told everyone like, look, y'all, I'm feeling burned out, like I'm exhausted. I know how you're feeling, and I think just people hearing that I'm burned out, makes them feel like oh, you know, everyone's feeling it, right and it's, and I said, look, here's what I did, here's what I changed.
Michael LeBlanc 17:46
If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure and hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss another great episode. We'll be right back to this interview with Steven Tristan Young from Poshmark right after this important message.
Michael LeBlanc 17:59
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Steven Tristan Young 18:36
And, I was sharing this story the other day, that, you know, I found recently, and I think that was, like, 6, 7, 8 months ago, that Monday afternoons were just terrible for me, I don't know, but I had to listen to my body. Like, I wasn't very good at meetings, I often would just like, not be present and I realized, maybe there's something about Monday afternoon that doesn't work for me. So, how do we clear that afternoon, give me some breathing space, so that I can be at my best and be 150% for Tuesdays and Thursday. Right and it's really listening to your body, not pushing yourself because for anyone that's a high achiever, like I said, a lot of my team is, I, my myself, you just want to get more done, and there's no end, right. You can keep working all you want, but eventually, our body keeps score and tells us I don't want to do any more work and I think that was me listening and saying, My body doesn't want to do any work right now, I don't know why and say it's okay, right, I'd rather have high quality output in the times that matter than try to like, slog it all through.
Steven Tristan Young 19:30
So I think sharing those experiences with my team, and, makes, also, a change a management style when we're so used to always coming from a position of strength, that I think showing a little bit more that vulnerability and how this, you know, entire environments impacted us, how we feel, like, allows you to connect with your team a little better and look, there's so many more things I could do, but there's only so much time in the day and I do feel that appreciation, recognition, vulnerability are three of the things that I really had to highlight a lot more during this time or to be able to connect with my team and to try to retain as many of them even as I'm asking for even more productivity.
Scott Silverman 20:03
What about creativity, I mean, this concept of coming up with new ideas, people building on an idea riffing, you know, if, if this is going to this, the work from home going to be a long term, type of situation, how do you feel like your ability as a CMO to nourish that creativity on a long-term basis?
Steven Tristan Young 20:31
I will definitely say it's one of the areas that I think were the most hampered, like, the ability to riff in person and to feel each other's energy and to build on that is so much easier in person. Now, it doesn't mean you can't do it. Whenever we've had to do brainstorms, you know, I think it sounds awful. We have to do structured brainstorm, right, which is almost antithetical to how you talk about it, like you come in with your ideas and then we sort of, you know, vet the ideas against each other versus asking in an open space, what do you think we should do, I don't think, you know, unless you're in the design space, where there are tools that allow you to have this creativity flourish online, I think it's harder for those of us who are probably in the more business analytical to then suddenly be creative in a, when we're facing a screen.
Steven Tristan Young 21:12
I know that anytime we do any brand discussion, strategy, discussions around positioning, it is so difficult to do it on Zoom. Right, you're cutting each other off, you're not able to build. So, I'm hoping that the virtual workplace, the hybrid, where we can maybe say, hey, there, sometimes you want to come in, because we want to riff on each other. Let's use that one time of the week to do that. And maybe other times are basically heads down, you're doing your own work, can we come to a place where, like I said, it's going to be a virtual hybrid workplace, that we just leverage the time together for the things that we know works best for that. Right, versus I think before, we almost have like a one size fits all, that we assume that everyone can be, you know, working at the same pace and brainstorming at the same pace.
Steven Tristan Young 21:21
So, I think that's a new mode that you must remember that we're all learning and I'm excited that we're all at least in a mindset of being able to change the rhythm and not just be on the screen five hours a day, like, sorry, 10 hours a day, five days a week, but really change it up, maybe go to the office do a half day and so I've been doing that with my team, where, maybe, I'll do a half day or I'll do, like, you know, spend three hours someplace else on a project that requires a bit more of a discussion.
Scott Silverman 22:21
Yeah, it's a really interesting time and I think everybody's experimenting, trying to find the right balance. I know, Michael, you had some you wanted to go a little bit into kind of hiring for marketing talent.
Michael LeBlanc 22:35
Yeah, the question is, is, you know, you've got a fantastic pedigree, a top tier university, is that what you look for, I hear from other leaders that they find, other business leaders, that the education system is almost failing them in some ways, and they look for other types of certification, not necessarily, colleges or universities, but there's many different types of education, they, they have a broader lens, is that how you look at things or tell me about that, when you're, when you're looking for talent?
Steven Tristan Young 23:05
So I, my framework for talent, fundamentally, it applies to a lot of levels, maybe except for VPs, right, is, I like to look for people who are, you know, you've heard this before, they're generally all around athletes, right. They, they can do a lot of different things, but it's hard to define that in the context of education. So, what I look for people who I have, like high will, medium skill, right and that the idea is that a lot of the skills for these roles are usually on the job training, and you know, they change every 6 to 18 months, right. So, someone who has high will and has demonstrated in other prior work, or in school projects, or in dedication to certain, like, public service, or, you know, school intrapreneurial, like sports clubs, to me are the kinds of candidates I like.
Steven Tristan Young 23:47
Now, obviously, you look at different schools and I try not to have what I call looking-glass-bias, like, that just because this person went to a school of a certain level that I am used to, or they've gone to, they're all going to exactly the same, I recognize that people come in different biases, different experiences, different life experiences. So usually, to me, the school might get you through the door, but it doesn't guarantee you the job and so someone who didn't go to that kind of school, but you know, has clearly done their homework, is emotional intelligence in the interview, to me skews a lot higher in the long run and usually what I try to do is I try to, you know, with my team, obviously, we have a panel, I try to be more that voice of: here's my bet on this person, I think they're going to do really well, versus looking at them truly on the functional area because I think that's something where a lot of my team members are very good at that.
Steven Tristan Young 24:32
I try to be like, what is the secret sauce of this person? Like, is there something about them that I think they're going to grow into, is there potential there and that's hard to assess when you're trying to figure out is it someone I can work with on a day to day, but as a leader, looking at potential, looking at where they came from looking at what I can unlock is, to me the most exciting part because when you find those, it is an amazing journey to watch someone grow into the role and exceed your expectations and I've seen that so many times.
Steven Tristan Young 24:57
I actually have this great story where, you know, It's an employee that I remember I hired and you know, the interview process was pretty tough, but she, you know, she went through it and I would say in the first three, four months, I saw this look of paralysis in her face, every time we would do anything super technical, or maybe super mathematical and that could sense it, you know, it was coming from a place of fear and so instead of saying did I mistaken this, I actually had a chat with her and said, hey, you know, can I commit to, let's work on this together because actually, you can do this, because you actually answered one of my questions, which was a very technical question, interviewed very well, but it just, she needed the permission to actually start from scratch and say, here's what I don't know, here's what I need to work on and she put it in and ended being like one of the best people in the team, right.
Steven Tristan Young 25:40
So, I think sometimes, the things that people have potential on may not be evident, but if you can see it, and if you nurture it that pays off in the long run, whereas some people who you think, you know, oh, my god, they have all the pedigree, but then also, they don't have the will. I4 said, the only people who could really get away with low will and high skill are like engineers, right because every hour, their hourly contribution is high leverage, but for others, especially in the knowledge space work, it's a little bit different. So.
Michael LeBlanc 26:06
I love, I love that framework, the, the medium skill, high will, I love that, I love that framework. It's, it's a very visual, four quadrant box, to me, that kind of put it into a framework, I want to spend a couple of minutes, shift gears a little bit, I want to spend a couple of minutes on the consumer, Roger Martin and talk about retail strategist, he talks about consumer behaviors as decaying assets on the balance sheet, this was even pre COVID and we don't want to dwell on the COVID era too much, but how are you thinking about a behavioral changes of the past, that are brought on by the past, you know, the COVID era, are you are you thinking that there's been a, not just a temporary adjustment in our lives, but are you observing any permanent shifts in consumer behavior from your perspective?
Steven Tristan Young 26:52
I think this shift is that it's always changing, right, like, I'll give you an example that even last year, right when COVID hit, you know, we had our strategy and how we buy our TV media, but even then, we quickly had to pivot and say, well, for the next three months, what are people really going to be watching, they're going to be watching the travel channel, or are they going to be watching the news and then thinking through, like, well, what is the consumer behavior right now that we need to, sort of, follow or chase, not necessarily the ones that we think is happening.
Steven Tristan Young 27:19
So, to me, you know, there, the other data point from last year is that, you know, most people were focused on mobile advertising, then suddenly, everyone was at home and suddenly on your desktop and that shifted, also then how people consume media and advertisement. So I just think right now, given that we're still in the landscape, where we're not back on the same page, from where we were in 2019, consumer behavior is almost not, not unpredictable, but it is ever changing and so I think, as marketers, we just have to think through logically, if we want to do campaigns, what makes sense, right. If you're an advertiser trying to launch a chance-, put, you know, subway ad in the middle of COVID, I'd be like, what are you doing, right?
Michael LeBlanc 27:56
Right, right, right.
Steven Tristan Young 27:57
That's not thinking, like, on what's happening right now. So, I do think that every market was going to be required to think in that lens of what do I think should happen versus what I think is actually happening, is there any data to support that to how do you also think about what's where consumers are going to, and how their behaviors are changing in terms of what they believe in what they don't believe. I think a lot of brands probably let a lot of consumers down this past year. Obviously, social justice has become a much more important topic and so also, how do you show up in the most authentic way without being overstressed without overextending yourself.
Steven Tristan Young 28:26
So, I think, when customer, consumer behavior, consumer expectations on the brand, but I think more importantly, just really thinking about like, that all the things that we know about measurement, and tracking are also going to be fundamentally changing. So, you may actually have to be in a space in the future where you're trying to predict people's behaviors, not necessarily on bits and bytes, and pixels and like cookies, but really like what do we think is happening from, you know, survey data, which, by the way, is we're kind of back to the old days of like, 50% of the data
Michael LeBlanc 28:57
First party data.
Steven Tristan Young 28:59
Which (inaudible)
Michael LeBlanc 28:59
Right, right, right.
Steven Tristan Young 29:00
So, it's really interesting to see that shift and so I do think that measurement, well, the lack of measurement, or the priv-, the increasing privacy will fundamentally change also how we think about marketing, advertisement and investments, but also how we think about measurement.
Michael LeBlanc 29:13
Now, and now as you think about 2022 because it's right around the corner, is there any big bets you're making that you've intuited around consumer behavior, I've talked to some leaders who say, you know, I'm going to pivot more towards influencer marketing or more towards some other things based on what I assume is, let's call it post COVID, but in the, you know, whatever happens in 2022, we're all putting in our budgets for next year, we're going to have to make some decisions and, and some bets any, any that, that jump to your mind?
Steven Tristan Young 29:42
So, I wish I could share that, but then that would be my secret sauce for the team. So I probably won't disclose any of that, but I do think that, you know, really making and thinking about measurement, and how much do we want to believe and what our belief systems, is really going to be one of the top of mine discussion points because if there are options to invest, but don't have this clear measurement, what do we need to believe in order to go in that direction?
Michael LeBlanc 30:05
That north star, you called it like that, that north star, right, just that one.
Steven Tristan Young 30:09
We're, I wouldn't even say, for most of these things, especially for marketing channels, it's hard to have a north star. Unless you've done it in the past, right, you almost have to have a belief that, like, I know, this works, I have to just try it out with you and see it and even the data doesn't show it. I know, it's going to work. So how do we belie-, how do we think about those kinds of bets based on what you know, and I hate to say, but based on what your gut instinct says, as a marketer, and also when do you not believe the data, right.
Steven Tristan Young 30:36
I saw this really amazing article recently about performance marketing, and it was actually saying it's all performance marketing, basically a scam and eventually read the article, it actually was quite logical in its approach, but I don't know if I believe all points of it, it basically was saying also that, you know, thinking more strategically and big bets, when it comes to channels, things that you probably would never have thought about, that are analog might be something that everyone has to think about going into 2022. So, money's still there. The question is your, you know, you spend it in a crowded ecosystem without any control of the auction, or your ability to influence it or do you try to carve out new tests to diversify your investments, I think people are probably going to be more of the latter and we already saw that happened in the last six, seven months.
Steven Tristan Young 31:17
So, we're gonna ask you to kind of stretch out your thinking, all the way to 2026, five years from now, you know, we, you talked a little bit about, kind of, where you see things happening with the consumer, but what about your role as CMO. How will things be different in, you know, in five years, are you just managing algorithms, I'm guessing the answer is no, there's a lot more to it, but, you know, what, like, how do you, you know, how do you see your day to day being different in the future five years from now?
Steven Tristan Young 31:50
So, I do think that understanding how algorithms work, and what its role is in your marketing strategy is still going to be a big part of it. So, you know, in the absence of even more and nose level data, I think algorithms will help us figure out how to optimize our, our dollars, even better, I do think there's going to have to be a lot more time spent, and also how to come up with more big breakthrough ideas that really probably are more traditional and more at the brand level, like how do you create that emotional connection with consumers, especially consumers, who demand more when it comes to, you know, social justice positioning, sustainability, and these are things that we probably have taken for granted, but are now becoming more forefront, especially with Gen Z and Gen Alpha.
Steven Tristan Young 32:29
So, I think thinking through those, and three, really also understand like, how do you, how do you work with a team that might be more distributed than ever before and, you know, I also think the other changing landscape is to know how to what's the role of agencies, right, are they an extension of your team as a capability or are they really the ones going to come through with breakthrough ideas or are they actually your, you know, managing your paid media because right now all that's becoming highly commoditized. If you were in the art creative space, you know, think about how easy it is to create your own video, right, thank god is, like Canvas changed the entire landscape on how to create ads, a lot of creatives are going to be in a position where it's like, well, what do I do if people can do this themselves.
Steven Tristan Young 33:06
So, I think there's a lot there, where creation of content and creativity might get more in house just because of all these tools that are available and so then with that, how do you then manage that creative process and that big picture thinking. So, I don't know if I answered it, but I do think that the role of the Chief Marketing Officer continues to evolve, right, that it's not just a brand role, it's not just a performance role, it's not just a revenue role, it's a little bit of everything and I actually remember reading this great article that I think, next to the CEO, it's probably the next most complicated role because you touched so many things. It's not like when you're in finance, your span of influence is much more narrow or you're in operations, it's a little bit more narrow, but here it's, like, one day it's a comm strategy, the next minute product marketing strategy, next, you know, it's, you know, tracking and mobile tracking.
Steven Tristan Young 33:53
It, like you're just jumping around, and by the way, I, that's what I love about this job because I exist in all these spaces, that I've never been to one person, I think it was probably my SAT score that indicated that I had literally taken it so many times, I had a split score, in both my verbal and math, so it, I was never, it was like, I'm not really good in one or the other, apparently, I'm just okay on both, that's how I thought about it, but now it actually means that I can jump into different conversations based on my interest level, and say, do we want to talk about a data question or do we want to talk about a measurement, do we want to talk about creativity, being able to pivot to all these things, I think, is what the Chief Marketing Officer of the future needs to be.
Scott Silverman 34:29
You gave us, like, a couple of really good things to think about the role of the agency and the, this democratization of creativity. I think there's, there's, those are whole topics we could go into more. So, you have been so generous with your time, we want to give back and tell us about the open roles you have and how can people learn more about them and have an opportunity to work with an amazing humble leader like yourself?
Steven Tristan Young 34:57
Thank you. No, um, so we have a number of roles that are open. I think several of them include, I'm actually looking for an Associate Brand Director role because we're, like I said, now's the time for me to help think about how do I want this brand to evolve over the next three to five years and really having a leader who's worked with other brands to help shape this, for us is one of the most important roles right now that I'm trying to search for on the team. I also have a role around retention, and CRM, because I do think that as front end cos-, marketing costs become more expensive, really thinking about how to retain your users and like I said, it's less than just loyalty, but it's really thinking through the fact that how you communicate to users who have so many more brands, right, there's push notification, there's email, there's text, there's offline, it's online, how, you know, finding someone who's excited by that I fundamentally, I think sometimes that's a database marketing role, but also, there's an element of creativity because the goal is, like, how do you get to the consumer and get the right message at the right time.
Steven Tristan Young 35:47
I also have a number of roles opening up in different areas like our merchandising, and product marketing, as well as on my growth team, where we continue to, sort of, invest not just marketing dollars in the US, but globally. So, you know, I'm very fortunate, like I said, this past year alone, probably, we've been able to bring in north of 20, plus new people on the team, which by the way, in an incredibly difficult hiring year, I, I give such kudos to our hiring team, to be able to identify, get into the pipeline, and then get it through because, I guess, it's a war for talent, y'all, we've got to be fast on this. I mean, I wish we're even faster, but I know there's some times we want to make sure that we don't miss the right things on certain employees, but for me, these kinds of roles also indicate just what, what we need now, but I do know that we're going to need even more as we grow into a global marketing team, where, like language capabilities will come into play in the future, localization, you know, we also have a huge event component to our business, and how do we localize all of that, and a high touch way. And so to me, building out that community is one of the most exciting parts and we also have some roles in that.
Steven Tristan Young 36:48
So like I said, my whole team has a lot of different open roles, but to me, if you're excited about, one, working in a marketing team, that's very data oriented, that still like hold on to element of creativity, that serves a really large, passionate community and that also has an amazing set of leaders. Like I said, I'm the I'm the leader, but I will tell you that the leaders on my team are fantastic, like I am so proud of how all of them have grown and even from when I started, you know, often I had to bring to them and say remember when I first started, remember, we talked about this problem, remember how you, like, think about how you're solving it now and to me, that's great. Like, that's me, empowering them and training them so that they can do it on their own.
Steven Tristan Young 37:26
Like, I always make it that I don't want to be the bottleneck for everything, right, like bring me in, in certain parts, but other areas, I don't need to, but if you can train your team, then you're functioning the way you're supposed to and that also for me is a big part of the management style that I think having distributed teams where I don't see people all the time, but I focused on output is a big was a big plus for me going into COVID, because I had that already before in my last role, right. I couldn't see half my team half the month, but I knew they were deliv-, I knew they're delivering and the create that element of trust and you have to get the system to say, how do you make sure that people are doing what they're supposed to or how do you ensure that the output is where you want it to be without having to say I need an update every day, right because I think that I definitely don't need.
Scott Silverman 38:07
Okay and so where do people go?
Steven Tristan Young 38:10
Just go to poshmark.com/careers, you can see a number of the roles on there and like I said, if you are interested, let me know, but I would love to have people who are interested in being in a dynamic team. Being in a company that also helps people, are sellers themselves, are people who are selling on Poshmark to make a living and when you meet them, you hear their stories and I have to tell you, it's, like, amazing and you know, I'm very fortunate that in some sense, I get to have a for profit job with a non for profit feel, which is what everyone wants and I think once people realize that it makes working at this company even more meaningful, that the day to day, you know, we're making money, we're selling, but people's lives are actually changing because of the platform that we have and that makes working there everyday so much more meaningful.
Scott Silverman 38:53
Well, Steven, it has been a pleasure talking to you about marketing and leadership. I can't think of a better advertisement for, come, to come to work for Poshmark than to hear you talk about the way you approach things. So, thank you so much for being a part of Conversations with CommerceNext and, and Michael, thanks for, for being a part of this as well.
Michael LeBlanc 39:17
Yeah, my pleasure, it was great listening to you, I mean, leadership for the future, lots of lessons to be learned and I wish you, continued success to you.
Steven Tristan Young 39:24
Thank you so much, gentlemen, I really appreciate it, like I said, as you can tell, I love sharing these stories. I also hope that it's something that people can learn from. It's amazing how I always think leadership is about stories, right, and storytelling and, and pattern recognizing when the same moments because then that, to me, feels more impactful when you want to change behavior, sharing either your own experience with it or how it's happened in your life versus saying, here's what you must do, because the book says so, I was think that's the worst kind of like leadership and management.
Michael LeBlanc 39:52
Right on. Right on. Well, thanks again for joining us and again, wish you continued success and Scott safe travels back home.
Scott Silverman 39:58
Thank you